More Sorry Suggestions

[dazzler]

Hi

Watched the broadcast this morning. Hope those it applies to get some closure.

But both Rudd and Nelson need a belt in the mouth. What would possess Rudd, after moving the apology, to bring on a debate about policies that have nothing to do with the apology and then to have Nelson come on and start justifying what occurred.

Watching the crowd you could see the elation in the crowd from Rudds apology turn to sadness once Nelson began to go on about how bad there current situation is. Brendan, i think they know its up the creek mate .

Rudd also decided to make the apology his big thing in life, four times he said "Today, I .do this, i do that......". What a self promoter.

When Nelson spoke it started out good, I was thinking "Yep, this is good, he's apologising but keeping it in perspective and in context of what occurred" and then he just didnt shut up and i started to feel uncomfortable and in the end his speech soured it somewhat.

Why these two clowns couldnt get together for an hour and agree just to say sorry and move on. Idiots.

[Bleedin Thumb]

I think its appropriate that we start with the children. If they are given a decent opportunity at school from an early age this should have a beneficial flow on to the entire community.

Astrid the aboriginal kids have and are given the opportunity to schooling even in remote areas via school of the air.

Parents (or loving carers) turn children into well balanced adults.

Without the input and discipline of caring parents - having a fully resourced school next door won't do a thing.

Its not up the children to influence the community its the communities responsibility to influence the children.

[woodbe]

Point of order.

From what I have seen and heard both personally and through the stinkin media, the problem has not been children's access to education. The problem is that the kids just don't reliably turn up. I think that was one of the things the previous government was threatening to hold welfare etc over.

As you were

woodbe.

[silentC]

Yeah and Rudd has just announced that every kid four years of age will be given preschool education. So how's he going to get them to turn up for that? Bribe them with bags of lollies?

[MICKYG]

Woodbe , you are correct on the schooling issue. I have two who are over thirty and I am unaware of any child regardless of colour being deprived a good education. The problem arose exactly as you say, did not want to participate. This applies to the Commonwealth of Australia.

Another firphy as are many of the yarns you hear. There is a good joke under Woodies Jokes "Pollies"

Regards Mike

[HappyHammer]

K07 now has to solve real problems like...

1. Ensuring the safety of Indigenous children
2. Ensuring education for aboriginal children
3. Providing law and order in aboriginal communities
4. Deciding what to do about intervention
5. Ensuring Aboriginies have a means of maintaining thier culture
6. Bringing all Australians together to help solve these issues
7. Address the perception / reality that aboriginies get too many unjustifiable handouts
8. ......

Then there is the list for the Aboriginies themselves.

1. Ensuring the safety of Indigenous children
2. Ensuring education for aboriginal children
3. Providing law and order in aboriginal communities
4. Deciding what to do about intervention
5. Ensuring Aboriginies have a means of maintaining thier culture
6. Bringing all Australians together to help solve these issues
7. Address the perception / reality that aboriginies get too many unjustifiable handouts
8. ...

HH.

[DrDread]

Astrid, There was no plan for genocide by any Australian Government that is a blatant lie.

In fact every name put forward as a "stolen" person so far have been shown to be "saved" rather than stolen. Very very few and yet to be proven as taken or stolen purley of racial grounds. Half catse children back then were abused and abandoned, without intervention many or most would have died.

Rudd is saying sorry to all children taken without any consideration for those that indeed had to be taken for there own safety.

I guess its ok to leave a child to suffer sexual abuse that at age 10 is riddled with syphlis. If it is so wrong to take a child into care regardles black or white why are they still doing it this very day! And why is Rudd saying sory for doing what was and still is the right thing to do.

Saying sorry should be defined as those few who were taken purley on racist grounds. What he is doing here is undermining the welfare of kids that are being rapped and abused in the most horiffic circumstances that would never be tollerated in a normal community.

I don't have a problem him saying sorry to those genuinly taken for racist reasons. What he is about to do is wrong wrong wrong. My heart bleeds for the poor kids left in circumstances you could not imagine because it is seen as wrong to help them as defined by Rudd's blanket appology.

This will have the very opposite effect than what it is intended.

It will go down in history as the worst speach ever given in paliament purley because it does not recoginse or the good from the evil.

BTW books don't always tell the truth either! You would be one hell of a mixed up puppy if you believed everything you read.

Did my first post yesterday then had a look around...and found this^.

Jeez mate, I would have thought that in the twenty first century, as a nation we are mature and gracious enough to acknowledge the brutality and subjugation of a 50,000 year old culture by way of a simple apology.

In the early part of the 19th century there was a deliberate and unrelenting agenda by Colonial agencies to de-populate southern Australia of Koori peoples to smooth the way for white settlement. This policy continued late into the 1800's and early 20th century. Maybe not genocide but certainly a concerted effort to dismantle an entire culture.

In fact every name put forward as a "stolen" person so far have been shown to be "saved" rather than stolen.

"Saved"? Says who? Some ideological throwback from 19th century squatocracy? Nicking these kids was still going on less than a generation ago. Many of these people are still alive today and by their own accounts were certainly not saved.

Very very few and yet to be proven as taken or stolen purley of racial grounds. Half catse children back then were abused and abandoned, without intervention many or most would have died.

Sweeping denialism to say the least, bordering on total nonsense. From just 1930 to the mid fifties, Bureau of statistics documents (available for anybody to study) clearly and unapologetically clinically describe the systematic removal of over 15,000 children from families purely on the basis of skin colour. Some were victims of abuse, others not but abuse on its own was never the over-riding consideration in a child's removal.

You conveniently ignore the fact that half-castes were born from the very racism, disposession and brutality that you seek to deny.

For gods sake we did not even have the decency to formerly recognise these people as human beings until the 1960's but here we are, in 2008 still indulging ourselves in the mean, blackhearted denialism of ulta-conservatism.

...And Rudds speech the "Worst ever"? You hadn't even heard it yesterday. I did today and also Nelson's reply if you could call it that. This so-called reply was nothing more than a weak sop to the black-hearted Tories who gave him the job. Mean spirited and without intellect.

Don't believe everything you read you say. In the case of your post I could not agree more.

[silentC]

Conspiracy theories and denialism aside, there might be some debate over why the children were taken, but none over the way the were taken, which is probably just as important, if not more so. There are plenty of accounts of that and you would be a hard person to not be moved by them. No doubt it was a terrible situation to be involved in, there can be no question about it.

I just watched Mike Dodson's brother Patrick speaking on Meet the Press. What an impressive chap he is, there should be more like him. Very practical and forward looking. A couple of points he made:

1. Talking about compensation: he feels there should be compensation as a part of reparation but compensation might consist of something different to what most people think. He didn't expand on that, but I take it to mean maybe actions to follow the words but not necessarily money. I like that kind of talk, it shows a recognition that money wont solve the problems.

2. A lot of the misunderstanding and/or fear felt by white people is because they don't know anything about the Aboriginal people. We are afraid of being exposed for the ignorant people we are. His suggestion was that this can be addressed by education and you need Aboriginal people to become the educators. I like that too: you fellas think us black fellas need educating - it's you who need the education and we're gonna give it to you.

3. People turning their back on Nelson: if people want to look to the past, that's understandable - the hurt doesn't go away that easily - but we need to move beyond that now and look to the future.

Remains to be seen if that sort of sentiment is converted into actions.

I still think Rudd has the wrong idea if he's going to try and force 4yo kids to go to pre school and 'get a good start'. That's getting a good start in the white man's world, and isn't that what they're struggling against?

[Blarney]

http://www.sydneyline.com/National%2...20Conflict.htm

I think there is some fibs on both sides.

[silentC]

Get some background on the History Wars here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_Wars

[pharmaboy2]

http://www.sydneyline.com/National%2...20Conflict.htm

I think there is some fibs on both sides.

i'm sure this one has been referenced before, but Noel Pearson's article from Tuesday is an interesting read and roundup of the politics of this topic..

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-28737,00.html

[dazzler]

Jeez mate, I would have thought that in the twenty first century, as a nation we are mature and gracious enough to acknowledge the brutality and subjugation of a 50,000 year old culture by way of a simple apology.

.

Welcome aboard Dr,

Keep it to what we are discussing.....the apology for the "stolen generations", not colonialism or the terrible things that happened when the English arrived.

have fun now

[Waldo]

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[Zed]

I didnt read all teh preceding pages as I dint have time and this is too much a serious subject for whatever reasons who ever hold. My take is this;

1) things are done for many reasons, good and bad. the taking of half caste kids was done PRIMARILY (I understand) so as to help those kids.
2) I reckon (subjecture only) that most of those kids had more oppotunities than thier peers who didnt get taken.
3) throughout history people have been abducted, not just oz aboriginals. no one said sorry to them. think of the african slaves in the america's
4) why should a present day govt admit liability for something that happened well before our times ? lets face it that is the next step in the sorry process... "you've admitted it.. now pay for it"
5) what mick said in an early post here is very pertinant wrt the "victim" mentality.... get on with it... how many breaks do you need to get over perceived ancestral injustices ?
6) I think the aboriginal community needs to adjust to the 21st century - everybody is busy running thier own lives rather than worry about other peoples problems.

its a sad situation, Im sorry it happened, I wish it didnt, I also wish WW1 & 2 didnt happen otherwise I might still be with my extended family back in europe. But I dont want an apology from any of the euro nations... I just get on with my life. Surely you can too...

[Waldo]