More Sorry Suggestions

[HappyHammer]

There has to be a responsibility to ourselves as well as our responsibility to "them". This implies some common ground, but it doesn't mean cultural oblivion. It's a more complex issue that I can explain in a woodworking forum and I don't pretend to understand all the issues and not much of most of them.

Agreed this is what I was trying to get across in a previous post and this is also what makes it difficult and complicated. With the best intentions on both sides I think some hard calls need to be made and with politicians forever seeking popularity and the vote of the city dwelling psuedo lefties I doubt these calls will be made which is what frustrates me the most about this and many other issues.

HH.

[rod@plasterbrok]

Astrid, There was no plan for genocide by any Australian Government that is a blatant lie.

In fact every name put forward as a "stolen" person so far have been shown to be "saved" rather than stolen. Very very few and yet to be proven as taken or stolen purley of racial grounds. Half catse children back then were abused and abandoned, without intervention many or most would have died.

Rudd is saying sorry to all children taken without any consideration for those that indeed had to be taken for there own safety.

I guess its ok to leave a child to suffer sexual abuse that at age 10 is riddled with syphlis. If it is so wrong to take a child into care regardles black or white why are they still doing it this very day! And why is Rudd saying sory for doing what was and still is the right thing to do.

Saying sorry should be defined as those few who were taken purley on racist grounds. What he is doing here is undermining the welfare of kids that are being rapped and abused in the most horiffic circumstances that would never be tollerated in a normal community.

I don't have a problem him saying sorry to those genuinly taken for racist reasons. What he is about to do is wrong wrong wrong. My heart bleeds for the poor kids left in circumstances you could not imagine because it is seen as wrong to help them as defined by Rudd's blanket appology.

This will have the very opposite effect than what it is intended.

It will go down in history as the worst speach ever given in paliament purley because it does not recoginse or the good from the evil.

BTW books don't always tell the truth either! You would be one hell of a mixed up puppy if you believed everything you read.

[wayfarer]

I like spirited, meaningful, thoughtful conversation.
Name calling doesn't do it for me though.


I can get that from my sister in law. The evil witch.

[astrid]

OK,
Ill tell you a true story
In the early days of Australian silent film, a move was made about a little boy who escaped the aboriginee's chasing him and got back safe to the homestead,(the name of the film escapes me)
This was based on an incident that happened to "uncle Willie" an ancestor of my husbands family
What the film didnt show was that after willie got back safe, the men of the homestead mounted up, rode out to the aboriginal camp and shot every woman and child except one who they took back and brought up as an unpaid servant untill the day he died.
This was told to us by the daughter of the family before she died 10 years ago, she grew up with that boy.
I could name names and families,but i wont.
No action was taken against the perpetraitors of this atrocity although everyone knew about it.
This would have been about 1910

Astrid

[Fuzzie]

But Astrid that is nothing (edit: which I mean pre-dates) to do with the stolen generation stuff. It is an entirely different (edit: and more far reaching) issue that should be argued on grounds of racism or human rights or criminal law.

[Toyboy]

That 'story' is very similar to a number of factual recorded historical events that have taken place all over western Queensland, NSW, Tasmania and no doubt all the other states and territories. This does not for one moment make it right, but almost every country on Earth has a story to tell.
My point is that this bears no relevance to the 'sorry' issue at hand, so let's not muddy the waters any more than has already happened. It seems that all this business is allowing people to open old wounds.
There's obviously a lot of baggage being carried by a lot of people and at some point we have to build some bridges.
Whilst I disagree personally with the 'sorry' thing, it is another attempt at building a bridge, and let's face it, along this particular road, there will be many more to build, methinks.
So I think we should work on getting this one right with the tools that we've now been handed lest we follow off onto other tangents.

[johnc]

In answer to Rod, there can be little doubt that Government Officials either sanctioned or turned a blind eye to the multiple murders of Aboriginies. The wiping out of the Tasmanian population through organised shoots and miss treatment fit the title genocide. In our own town the local tribe was wiped out through the rounding up and shooting of large numbers, with the stragglers placed in a camp for their protection. Yet flour was delivered laced with arsenic, and that flour came from the Government. In the end the local problem was solved by wonton murder of innocents.

There can be little doubt that many children were unjustly removed and that the policies although misguided had their roots in the attitudes of the past. I don't think you can isolate the issue, the treatment of the original inhabitants has a lot to do with the current situation, because of the damage caused to those societies and the later inability to merge effectively with contempory Australian culture.

However I do think we need to seperate the past from the present, to mend the problem you have to put aside the past and work to rebuild communities and opportunity. Hopefully after the apology we will see the Aboriginal groups begin to engage in greater discussions on the changes they have to make in their own communities to improve their lot in life. It is up to the Government to help with resources and make damn sure we waste a darn sight less money then we have been. If the amount spent per capita was just given to them in their hands most native families could live in the lap of luxury. I actually think we are getting to excited about the apology, we should be more focused on what comes next.

[Waldo]

... I actually think we are getting to excited about the apology, we should be more focused on what comes next.

Unfortunately, I think it'll be compensation claims like never seen before. 07Ruds speech is too open and too generalised which will leave it open for interpretation by all parties whichever way you feel about this subject.

And please, don't misinterpret me, I am not racist in any manner - whatsoever.

[silentC]

How long is it going to be before "white Australia" realises and accepts that "aboriginal" people don't want to be another form of white Australia? That they do not want to be assimilated. They have their own culture which they wish to preserve. And that it's their human right to retain their culture? That we have no right to expect anything different.

Doesn't stop them from lining up at the white man's dole queue, does it?

But seriously, when was the last time you asked an Aboriginal person what they wanted? I know a handful and what they want is the same as what I want: somewhere to live, food on the table, a job, a future for their kids. Pride in their ancestry while acknowledging that the old ways are gone. Nothing wrong with that, is there? Why does "the white man's world" have to be the boogey man? No-one is forcing them to buy plasma TVs.

[rod@plasterbrok]

John, I understand many atrocities occured in the early settelment of Australia in particular, Tasmania.

I know this because it did not cost my parents a cent to put me through school and in primary school I received $7 per fornight (pocket money) that doubled to $14 while at high school. I was told this was compensation for the atrocities inflicted on my ancestors.

This does not change for a second what I posted above about Rudds sorry statement that will achieve nothing but division and suffering children well into the future. It literally makes me want to puke at the thought.

[dazzler]

The cynical and cruel policies to achieve the genocide of the original inhabitants was the decision of the parlement of the day.

Astrid

Which decision, which policy was passed by the "parlement of the day" to "achieve the genocide of the original inhabitants".

Dont worry about the bill number or which party was in power, just state which year or years it occurred?

[Toyboy]

Well put silentc. I reckon you've nailed it.....but if we took that approach, common sense that is, then there wouldn't be anything to bitch about, and without someone or something to whine about or something to throw money at, then the 'industry' would fold and everyone could have all those things you mention.

My God, we can't have that!

I read somewhere recently that some bloke had a vision.
"I wish there was a world without conflict, a world at peace etc.....then we could attack and they wouldn't be expecting it."

How scary is that? It was obviously said in jest, but sadly it seems to bear some truth as well. It reminds me of that old adage, "Many a true word is spoken in jest."

[patty]

the fact is White Australians have looked after and accomodated all sorts of races/religions in this country for a long time allowing them to build their churches mosques and communiites what positives have we done for for the real and original owners of this country???

[silentC]

Yeah mate, we haven't done a thing for them

Well, it's all over now. Now we'll see what happens in the aftermath...

[Gingermick]

The prevailing Us and Them attitude got us into this mess. It needs to be redressed if we are ever to get out.