More Sorry Suggestions

[silentC]

Weeeeelllll - there will, no doubt, be more penetrating analyses over the next few days than mine

Wishy washy meaningless watery pap. How's that for penetrating?

Not at all suprised at the lack of content, reads just like any of his other speeches I suppose. Oh well, tick that box - delivered as promised.

Now we await the profound changes it will bring...

[patty]

Well I tell ya what if I was on living in such a nice place such as this hunting and gathering like my past families for the last 40,000 years without a financial worry in the world no cars no employment, no tax man no petrol bills and nobody else except for fellow tribes and brothers and the bush and waterholes stockpiled full of fish and all of a sudden strangers come into my world and shoot at me and my family then we finally get accepted on the condition we have no real rights and then these strangers decide what is right for your family and take them away from you whaty is so right about that????

[bitingmidge]

Now we await the profound changes it will bring...

Will that happen before or after I get my broadband?

P

[astrid]

Hi there gang,
didnt post and run, it was getting on for 1am.
posting and running is really not my style.
now as this thread is running to some 150 posts it will probably take a while to read it all.
And my comment re reading one book, of course refered to one non fictional, contemporary book on the subject.

And i make absolutely no apollogie for for calling a spade a spade,
different opinion is one thing, trivializing peoples sorrow is another, and those who do, deserve what they get.

Astrid

[dazzler]

Well I tell ya what if I was on living in such a nice place such as this hunting and gathering like my past families for the last 40,000 years without a financial worry in the world no cars no employment, no tax man no petrol bills and nobody else except for fellow tribes and brothers and the bush and waterholes stockpiled full of fish and all of a sudden strangers come into my world and shoot at me and my family then we finally get accepted on the condition we have no real rights and then these strangers decide what is right for your family and take them away from you whaty is so right about that????

Hi Patty,

It sucks big time. The question is are Australians of today accountable and should they offer an apology. A mute point as it will happen tommorow morning. Lets hope it can assauge the sadness of those affected.

cheers

darren

[Calm]

Well I think he's struck a nice balance.

I would suggest that a couple of Lawyers and a few native australians will definitely try to improve their "nice balance" from the wording of this speech.

I am not necasarily against compensation for those affected - BUT will it do them any good in the long run? or will it end up with the other millions that Mr Clarke was in charge of distributing/handling.

[johnc]

There was an interview on ABC radio with an Elder from goodness knows where other than somewhere up North. He was happy about the apology but wanted Government intervention to end because black fellas law was capable of dealing with all their problems (just leave them alone and they will create a perfect society). What a crock of rubbish, pressed on sexual abuse of children he just declined to answer. Let's get on with the apology, but it is going to be a long road before some of these people get the idea that the law is for everyone as that is the only way you will get security, safety and an opportunity for the next generation to live a better life free of the domestic violence, poverty, poor health and hopelessness that pervades some of these camps. Men like these are no better than the so called red necks because they choose to believe what they want to rather than open their eyes to the truth of whats around them.

However I think these voices have lost there clout, there are a large number now that want to ackowledge what is really happening out there and those living in cloud cuckoo land are loosing their relevance.

[wayfarer]

I wonder if people here see the indigenous population as a section of the greater "Australian" culture or whether, one day, they'll realise that there are really two cultures living in one land? It seems to me that many posts here have an underlying thought that indigenous people ought to be judged/rewarded/cared-for by "our" standards rather than accept there is a real difference. That the needs and outlook of each are different as the colour of skin.

How long is it going to be before "white Australia" realises and accepts that "aboriginal" people don't want to be another form of white Australia? That they do not want to be assimilated. They have their own culture which they wish to preserve. And that it's their human right to retain their culture? That we have no right to expect anything different.

Who the hell are we to dispute that? What arrogance!

You'd have to think we'd be mature enough as a nation to be doing our utmost to change our attitude to accept our differences and to provide for them; to be their guardian; to protect them from the worst of our society. It's OUR responsibility to set things right.

We seem to try, but, like a poor marksman, we fail to hit the target time and time again.

To me, saying "sorry" is not about liability, it's about empathy for the worst of our relationship with each other. It's not about guilt, it's about sympathy. It's about healing and moving forward. Not a solution in itself, but a step forward.

The fact that people, all over, are talking about this is evidence of that very step forward.

[wayfarer]

There was an interview on ABC radio with an Elder from goodness knows where other than somewhere up North. He was happy about the apology but wanted Government intervention to end because black fellas law was capable of dealing with all their problems (just leave them alone and they will create a perfect society).

I'd hate to be seen as "selective" here, but I wonder if the media purposely find "experts" with outlandish opinions to help make a good story a sensational one? Call me a critic of "reporting" in this country, but they do and say stuff that makes me wonder.

[wayfarer]

Is this it? Is that all?

What utter crappola.

Seriously, why didn't he just give them beads and cut glass?

Bloody platitude central!

Obviously it's a hard thing to write and to get right... so many people want 2c and so many divergent opinions but this is.. well... wishy washy sound grabbing white washing white man's grand standing chest beating patriotic waffle.

Did George Bush write it?

Someone should have asked Malcolm Fraser if he had a spare ten minutes.

oh well, I suppose it's the act that counts, not the words.

I give notice that, at the next sitting, I will move:
That
Today we honour the Indigenous peoples of this land, the oldest continuing cultures in human history.
We reflect on their past mistreatment.
We reflect in particular on the mistreatment of those who were Stolen Generations - this blemished chapter in our nation's history.
The time has now come for the nation to turn a new page in Australia's history by righting the wrongs of the past and so moving forward with confidence to the future.
We apologise for the laws and policies of successive Parliaments and governments that have inflicted profound grief, suffering and loss on these our fellow Australians.
We apologise especially for the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families, their communities and their country.
For the pain, suffering and hurt of these Stolen Generations, their descendants and for their families left behind, we say sorry.
To the mothers and the fathers, the brothers and the sisters, for the breaking up of families and communities, we say sorry.
And for the indignity and degradation thus inflicted on a proud people and a proud culture, we say sorry.
We the Parliament of Australia respectfully request that this apology be received in the spirit in which it is offered as part of the healing of the nation.
For the future we take heart; resolving that this new page in the history of our great continent can now be written.
We today take this first step by acknowledging the past and laying claim to a future that embraces all Australians.
A future where this Parliament resolves that the injustices of the past must never, never happen again.
A future where we harness the determination of all Australians, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, to close the gap that lies between us in life expectancy, educational achievement and economic opportunity.
A future where we embrace the possibility of new solutions to enduring problems where old approaches have failed.
A future based on mutual respect, mutual resolve and mutual responsibility.
A future where all Australians, whatever their origins, are truly equal partners, with equal opportunities and with an equal stake in shaping the next chapter in the history of this great country, Australia.

[journeyman Mick]

...............and nobody else except for fellow tribes and brothers and the bush and waterholes stockpiled full of fish.............

Patty,
this is romantic nonsense. "Fellow tribes" used to fight each other to the death. There were over a hundered different languages (not dialects, but languages). It wasn't an idyllic, happy and easy existence, it was a grim struggle for survival most of the time. Some tribes practiced cannabalism when seasons were really tough and this included eating babies.

Mick

[HappyHammer]

.........., but try as I might, I cannot see anything other than vague parallels with the apparently generalised child abuse that has been reported of late in some indigenous communities.

Something has to be done, and if an apology is part of the solution lets get on with it. I'm not looking for our relatively safe and comfortable white society to get equal treatment, we're not living in that particular hell, and neither are our kids.

I attempted to draw the parallel to highlight the fact that whilst there are special rules, a level of mistrust and resentment will exist and solving the problem will be harder. Why not one rule for all.

I think that there are kids in safe, secure and loving environments in our culture as well as in the Aboriginal culture. Also there are sadly children suffering abuse on both sides also. The big difference seems to be that some of the elders within the aboriginal culture won't condemn the behaviour.

How long is it going to be before "white Australia" realises and accepts that "aboriginal" people don't want to be another form of white Australia? That they do not want to be assimilated. They have their own culture which they wish to preserve. And that it's their human right to retain their culture? That we have no right to expect anything different.

You'd have to think we'd be mature enough as a nation to be doing our utmost to change our attitude to accept our differences and to provide for them; to be their guardian; to protect them from the worst of our society. It's OUR responsibility to set things right.

Isn't it arrogant to assume we're thier guardian? Just a question.....

Also I'm assuming you don't include the acceptance of child abuse as an acceptable difference we should stand by and allow to occur?

I don't think anyone wants to make aborigines vanilla in anyway I think thier culture is very interesting and it would be a great loss to Australia to lose the knowledge and stories passed down generation to generation.

HH.

[astrid]

Some people cant seem to get the idea that no-one is asking individuals to apologize for something they had no hand in.

The cynical and cruel policies to achieve the genocide of the original inhabitants was the decision of the parlement of the day.
The responsibility to face up to the damage done, belongs to the parlement of today.
that is why both sides of the house are being asked to vote for it.

this is no different to the Japanese apologising to australia in 1956 (i think)
or the german gov apologizing to the Jews.

Its a confusing issue, but thats what its about.

The beauty of it is that the apology can be made to people still living.
This alone gives it meaning.

Astrid

[wayfarer]

Isn't it arrogant to assume we're thier guardian? Just a question.....

I don't know for sure. I was thinking in a different context. My use of "Guardianship" was more akin to helping out because we can rather than "do as I say"

Also I'm assuming you don't include the acceptance of child abuse as an acceptable difference we should stand by and allow to occur?
HH.

Obviously not, ditto for any other human rights abuses. There has to be a responsibility to ourselves as well as our responsibility to "them". This implies some common ground, but it doesn't mean cultural oblivion. It's a more complex issue that I can explain in a woodworking forum and I don't pretend to understand all the issues and not much of most of them.

[HappyHammer]

Some people cant seem to get the idea that no-one is asking individuals to apologize for something they had no hand in.

The cynical and cruel policies to achieve the genocide of the original inhabitants was the decision of the parlement of the day.
The responsibility to face up to the damage done, belongs to the parlement of today.
that is why both sides of the house are being asked to vote for it.

this is no different to the Japanese apologising to australia in 1956 (i think)
or the german gov apologizing to the Jews.

Its a confusing issue, but thats what its about.

The beauty of it is that the apology can be made to people still living.
This alone gives it meaning.

Astrid

Thanks for clearing that up Astrid a total waste of 162 posts, why didn't you say that in the beginning

Also if you want to call me a racist do it in the open forum not via PMs.

HH.