More Sorry Suggestions

[wayfarer]

So how is an apology going to improve the lot of indigenous Australians in general, when the large majority of them are not affected by it?

I think you'd have to be on the other side of the fence to understand why.
It might not be important to non-indigenous people, but that's not the point, is it? It seems important to most indigenous people whether they were directly affected by TSG or not.

[Gingermick]

This is only one step in the reconciliation process. Another thing needed is to give the kids in remote areas some hope for the future. Some hope that they can turn out to be nothing like their uncle who raped them or .,.,/.,././ .,m/ I cant write any more than that.
They need something to do and something to aspire to,
Noel Pearson for PM is a bad idea as he would need a party machine to get him there and a party line to tow.

And I didn't bloody well do any of it, but I'm sorry that it happened.

[silentC]

I think you'd have to be on the other side of the fence to understand why.

Obviously there's some mystical secret business here that common whiteys like myself can never understand, so we'll just wait and see how they come along in leaps and bounds after Wednesday shall we?

I think it's hilarious, all this philosophical waffling people go on about with the healing process and whatever, as if words are going to ever make a difference to anything. You've got a group of people who feel that they have had something taken away and no amount of politically correct BS is ever going to change their minds. Where did I read it? "With an apology normally comes reparation. Without compensation, 'sorry' is meaningless".

It's all just posturing. Just as meaningless as any election promise. Anybody who can't see that and actually believes their life or anyone else's will change as a result is fooling themselves and playing right into Rudd's hands.

[HappyHammer]

It might not be important to non-indigenous people, but that's not the point, is it?

I think this thread suggests it is because they don't feel part of, or want to be part of, the apology made by the government.

HH.

[Gingermick]

I wonder if anyone here has ever watched a sporting event and then proceeded to mention to someone that 'we' won when, in fact, they had nothing to do with the win.

[silentC]

Sporting teams are usually popular, governments are generally not

Nup sorry, there's no way I take ownership of something that was done before I was born and neither do I believe anybody alive at the time should either, unless they had a controlling influence or were a perpetrator. Maybe they should have a version of the Nuremburg trials and hunt them all down or something. That would be more meaningful than a blanket "sorry".

[MICKYG]

Perhaps the term Stolen Generation may have been coined over a bottle of metho in a park somewhere, perhaps it should be Rescued Generation. It is common knowledge that both white and black fit into the category but it has been and obvious fact not very many white people have been vocal about their possible misfortune. I never heard the term during the seventies or eighties regarding stolen generations.

Regards Mike

[Gingermick]

How does expressing sorrow for something give you ownership or culpability?

[silentC]

Well, we've been here before. Same answer as last time: depends on your definition of apology doesn't it? If you aren't responsible for something, how can you apologise for it? If you apologise for it, doesn't that suggest you're admitting culpability?

Expressing sorrow? Well that's a different matter. I don't think Rudd is planning to simply express sorrow though. John Howard did that already but it wasn't considered good enough. By apologising on my behalf, which is what I gather he's planning to do, he's making me a part of something that has nothing to do with me. If someone walks up to me on Thursday and says "thanks for the apology, mate" I'll say, "don't thank me, it was Kevin Rudd's apology, not mine".

Let's see what he's actually going to say, I suppose. But don't expect it to change anything. That's all I'm saying.

[Gingermick]

I dont expect it to change anything (nor do I think anyone would go up and thank you for it ) but something has to change and this is as good a place as any to start.

[dazzler]

From Reconcile.org.au;

In 1999, the Australian Government moved a motion for reconciliation with an expression of:
“deep and sincere regret that indigenous Australians suffered injustices under the practices of past generations, and for the hurt and trauma that many indigenous people continue to feel as a consequence of those practices".

Nuff said, get over it

[Gingermick]

That was the 99 australian government. They were a bunch of wonkers

And I feel similarly about persecuted jews from WW2. They got a free country out of it and are still whinging (the get over it bit)

[Fuzzie]

I like nice simple easy elegant solutions to things.

I grew up in Melbourne in the 50's and 60's and I knew that an /integration/ policy of some sort existed, even if I wasnt clear about the details. Why do so many people say they never knew what was happening? Hell, there was a referendum to give Aboriginies full rights as Australian citizens that was voted yes in a landslide during the same era. It seemed sensible to me then - help to bring a section of the community into the 20th century where they actually had to live. It appeared to me even in the 70's to be a truly caring approach compared to what the South Africans were doing with apartheid.

I also remember that at my school there were a couple of aboriginal kids in the boarding school, good footballers in the school team. I remember being horrified when I watched an inter-school game where the aboriginal kids were clearly targeted by the opposing side and realized for perhaps the first time that racism and intolerance were irrational and not just /normal/ bullying.

Then I remember in 1979 getting into an argument with a French/Canadian/First nation person about cultural issues and saying Australia was doing a good thing by trying to integrate aborigines and that integration was a 2 way street. We (white fellas) should also be assimilating some useful part of the aboriginal culture so we would all become some sort of homogenized Australian people. I'm not sure that didn't happen to me by just being born here. I don't know a lot of the dreamtime stories but I know I have a spiritual connection to the land. I have traveled extensively overseas and Í know there is some innate thing about the Australian bush that happens to me when I'm in it that doesn't happen elsewhere.

There are many different views being expressed here from what appears to be mostly one side of the fence, be they either yeah or nay. It's my guess there are just as many divergent views on the other side, some of which wont see any value in a sorry statement either.

Reality is that we all now live in the 21st century and by virtue of science, technology and population growth the world is getting smaller. It would be a nicer place if we could actually work out how to get along together.

However the homosapien animal has proved throughout its history and current affairs that as a species we tend to prefer to resolve things through conflict and conquering.

I'm sorry that I'm naive and like to think things were done with good intentions. I'm sorry the plan was wrong and didn't work. I'm not sorry that somebody tried to fix things up a bit.

I'm sorry there's no simple easy elegant solutions to things.

[mic-d]

We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care,which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies.
We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the english langauage and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation,thought and enterprise.
We feel that we must apolgise for building hundreds of homes for you ,which you have vandalised and destroyed.
We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped tp prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.
We apologise for developing large farms and properties ,which today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and staving during droughts.
We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabrics to replace animal skins you used before.

etc etc etc

This is a terribly paternalstic statement which highlights the skewed belief that the indigenous people were the poorer for not having these western trappings. Plainly their life and culture was richer before these things. The fact is though that things have moved on irrevocably from that point and I believe there won't be great change in aboriginal's situation until they can be forward looking rather than living in the past. I'm neutral on an apology, I don't know enough about aboriginal culture, but if the elders see this apology as a an important payment of respect and herald a new era, then I'm all for it, I hope so. But I have a rather pessimistic outlook.

Cheers
Michael

[ernknot]

As long as we have religion, non religion and politics plus different coloured people and cultures we will never get on. I wish we could.