Is this normal business tactic

[Toolin Around]

I was going to volunteer at a very large organization, I still would like to but... They demand that you sign a bunch of waivers to be part of the volunteer program, no biggy. Most have to do with confidentiality and and ownership of media materials that you may end up in...

Now here's the but. I get to the waiver that says I have to agree that they, the organization, will not be held liable for any injury of any kind that may befall me even if they are directly at fault either through their or any of their employees negligence. And that I have no work place protection of any kind... The waiver goes onto say I need to take responsibility for my own actions and take steps to avoid accidents. If I'm not mistaken accidents are not something you see coming and therefore you can't always take appropriate action to avoid them, hence the reason they're called accidents...

I ask the coordinator about this and the answers given were vague at best. I.e. there is a public liability that the volunteers are covered under, though it's not mentioned in any of the waivers I'm to sign... So I ask for details - which the coordinator has none. They have no idea what it covers or anything really...

Is this normal and or even legal to not cover someone especially in such a large organization especially if they're at fault.

[BobR]

A bit hard to comment on this one without all the information (not even a bush lawyer). You might end up finding that the public liability covers everyone except the volunteers. It is my understanding that an entity is not able to contract it's way out of any legal responsibility that it may have under various legislation. If it worries you, you might want to get a copy of the PL policy and take advice. Good luck.

[bitingmidge]

It is my understanding that an entity is not able to contract it's way out of any legal responsibility that it may have under various legislation. If it worries you, you might want to get a copy of the PL policy and take advice. Good luck.

That's my understanding too.

My guess is that it's a shock strategy to cut down on false or menial claims. "I cut my finger here and couldn't work for a month" sort of stuff, but in reality there's cover in place.

I don't think they can contract out of it, but they can certainly bluff their way, and it certainly gets the point across that you have to be careful!

People are quite extraordinary when it comes to this sort of thing. A few years ago, we had a number of (false) Professional Negligence claims lodged by clients who just didn't want to pay us. We'd get about three of these a year.

Because each one cost us an excess once the insurer started to defend them, we got jack of it. Even though not one of them was settled in the client's favour, we still had to pay the costs.

We reduced our PI insurance, but advised every new client that we had no cover, however they could have cover on their project for $x (whatever the premium was). Not one client chose to pay, all believed we had no insurance. We never received a claim after that.

Perhaps it's the same sort of logic?

People will tend to claim if they think there's something in it. You still need to check though, in case they're not blufffing .

Cheers,

P

[Groggy]

One thing of interest, my basic understanding of the law is that you CANNOT waiver any responsibilities under the law. In other words, if they are at fault they cannot escape liability with a waiver. I'd be interested in a proper legal opinion on this one.

[Wood Butcher]

Something to note about them alledgedly not covering "workplace" accidents. The QLD Government changed the name of the legislation from Workplace health & safety to Occupational Health & Safety specifically to covers those who aren't "working". This means that all volunteers are definately covered by this act.

Therefore if you have an accident even while you are volunteering and it is deemed that it was because of the fault of the organisation or related persons then they are liable for damages. They would have to have insurance against this but as Peter suggested are most likely bluffing to avoid potential claims.

[Wood Borer]

My advice is tell them to go jump. If they started to lose their volunteers they may start acting responsibly.

Goodness gracious, you are the one prepared to give your time, your expertise and your energy and they want to treat you like a sucker.

I am a volunteer in several organisations and I gladly give my time etc but I do expect the organisations to be responsible in the off chance that something went wrong.

Find another organisation to volunteer your time but an organisation who won't turn their back on you when you might need a bit of help. This mob sounds like a greedy take take take organisation.

[Sturdee]

I do volunteering with the local Men's shed which is run on a proper basis and has the necessary insurances for its volunteer workers.

As part of joining this program I had to go through a number of induction courses, including one on volunteering itself that may be of benefit to you.

This was adapted from Volunteering Victoria website which under their FAQs states that as a volunteer you are not covered by WorkCover so you should ask if they have both Public Liability (mentioning volunteers) and personal accident insurance for volunteers.

So it seems quite likely that the organisation doesn't cover its volunteers and that's also the reason why Centrelink has to approve volunteer organisations before they will allow their clients to do voluntary work for such organisations.

Although the link is for Victoria and your state may be different it will be worthwhile reading.

Peter.

[journeyman Mick]

Matt,
under Qld Occupational Heath and Safety legislation volunteers are workers and covered against injuries sustained in the course of their duties. Note also that if an employer doesn't pay workcover premiums that you will still be covered, they'll just get a huge fine if/when you make a claim. Don't take my word for it, ring 1300 369 915 and ask them.

Mick

PS if you did your building industry general safety induction (blue card) and were paying atttention you'd know that a volunteer is still classed as a worker.

[bitingmidge]

PS if you did your building industry general safety induction (blue card) and were paying atttention you'd know that a volunteer is still classed as a worker.

He can't afford to pay attention!



P

[Calm]

One thing of interest, my basic understanding of the law is that you CANNOT waiver any responsibilities under the law. In other words, if they are at fault they cannot escape liability with a waiver. I'd be interested in a proper legal opinion on this one.

I agree with Greg you cant under any circumstance sign away the right to claim for negligence by any one. Like others say find someone who appreciates your assistance.

The person who is not answering your questions is probably on $60,000+ per year and telling everyone he is a volunteer.

There are plenty out there that appreciate your help just find one of them instead.

Good luck and pat yourself on the back for being willing to help.

[echnidna]

I also believe that they cannot abrogate their legal responsibilitiues and that you would win in a court of law

BUT.

I wouldn't bother doing any volunteeer work for any organisation with that lousy attitude.
Who knows what corners they will cut that may lead to an injury sometime.
Tellem to make like a spud and get stuffed.

What sort of volunteer work would you like to do?

[journeyman Mick]

Matt,
I'm sure your local rural fire brigade could use a hand.

Mick

[Calm]

My mother born 1929 does a lot of work at the Op shop and they are always looking for someone to glue chairs up or fix things that with a bit of TLC can be sold again. They wont make you sign a disclaimer and they appreciate what you do.

[AlexS]

It may not be the organisation that is at fault, but their insurance company who is insisting that they get volunteers to sign such a waiver (even though it is probably invalid). Find another organisation that appreciates your efforts, and slip a copy of the waiver to your local polly and the department that administers OH&S. No point in keeping a dog and barking yourself.

[astrid]

It's usualy their legal people and insurance companies that put this rubbish in.
Mainly to prevent bogus and frivolous claims.
If you want to do work for this particular organisation, just cross out the bits that you dont agree with and initial them.
they will usually accept this,
You cant sign away your rights in legislation.
I recently was asked to sign an agreement witha temp agency that gave them permission to reveal to prospective employers.
My race and religion, political affiliations, union membership and sex..ual preferences( a good book and a glass of red)
I just crossed it all out and pointed out that this was illegal.

I wouldnt want to work for such a company anyway but so far they,ve said zip.

Astrid