New kitchen cabinets - levelling and securing

[JontyG]

Hi all,

I'm going to be putting together a bunch of new cabinets for the kitchen, which will form a U-shaped kitchen, topped off with a large U-shaped Caeserstone top.

I am planning to tile the floors before installing the new cabinets.

Now, I have some very basic questions, which I'm almost embarassed to ask, but here goes:

1. When installing the cabinets, should they be bolted to the floor, if so, what is the best way to do this, given the floor will be ceramic tiles, layed over floorboards (with CTU in between)? The cabinets backing on to walls will obviously be secured to the walls, but I'm concerned about our breakfast bar, which is largly free standing, and which I feel should probably be anchored to the floor.

2. I am not so sure that the floor is going to be absolutely level, and given that I am having a rather large slab of Caeserstone fitted, I was thinking of using adjustable feet to ensure the cabinets will all be absolutely level with one another. Any opinions on using adjustable feet (something like these)? I guess if I am using the feet then I don't anchor the cabinets to the floor...

Thanks,
Jonty

[Sybarite]

You don't need to bolt your cabinets to the floor, just secure them back against the wall as you suggested.

Adjustable plastic legs would be a good idea in this situation.
You can locate them so they are a half under the gable of each carcase and thus take maximum efective load from the cabinets and benchtop.

For the island you should have enough mass is the carcasses and benchtop (Caesarstone) to keep it in one place, but if you have any further doubts you can put a dab of builders adhesive under each of the legs.

At http://www.wilbrad.com.au/catalog/161.pdf you will find a screw in adjustable 100 - 160mm plastic leg - I think it is a better solution than the metal foot in your link...at least this is what we use a lot of when we can persuade reactionary cabinetmakers away from ladder bases...

Cheers,

[JontyG]

At http://www.wilbrad.com.au/catalog/161.pdf you will find a screw in adjustable 100 - 160mm plastic leg - I think it is a better solution than the metal foot in your link...at least this is what we use a lot of when we can persuade reactionary cabinetmakers away from ladder bases...

Thanks Earl.

So, with the legs you recommend, I would need ~100mm+ kickboards to hide them?

How do these legs attach to the carcass, so that they are half under the gable of each carcass? Sorry - just having trouble working it out from the picture

Is there a reason why the ones you recommend would be better than the feet in my OP? Do you think they'll take the load better?

Thanks again,
Jonty

[renomart]

How high are your carcases? If they are are approx. 720mm high then the metal adjustable legs (76mm high) will make your finished benchtop (33mm) height too low (720+76+33=829mm)

[JontyG]

How high are your carcases? If they are are approx. 720mm high then the metal adjustable legs (76mm high) will make your finished benchtop (33mm) height too low (720+76+33=829mm)

The carcasses are pretty tall, at 785mm, to match up with some existing cabinets in the kitchen. It's actually one of the reasons I was tending towards those feet. We are having 40mm tops fitted, so it would be 76+785+40 = 901mm. I think 900mm is about standard, right??

Thanks,
Jonty

[Sybarite]

Jonty,

I have drawn up a quick elevation that illustrates the principle of the block and leg system.

The block can be either screwed into the carcase base or 4 holes can be pre drillled for a "knock in" version of the mounting block.

As shown, the block protrudes to halfway under the gable to take the vertical load.

There is another version of this mounting block available from other suppliers which has a little flange running along the side of the block that is used for the gable support - both methods are sound.

I prefer this method for a number of reasons:

The legs are adjustable from the front so no holes need to be drilled through the base.

The load from the gables and base sit on top of the mounting block and the stress on the leg is a compression force rather that a shear force if the leg were drilled into the gable.

The plastic legs are very cheap.

I am pretty sure there are shorter versions of this design available as I have used them for vanites where the kick height is lower than the generic kitchen height of 140mm - 150mm.

Of course at the end of the day it is a personal preference.

Cheers,

[JontyG]

Thanks Earl, thats very useful.

I may have to rethink my design a bit.

[journeyman Mick]

I use a plastic leg from Lincoln Sentry, I think it's a "star" brand. The leg is hinged to the base so you can fit them in the workshop and just fold them out and lock them vertical when you get on site. The legs themselves are in two pieces, one inside the other and you can pull it out, rotate it 90 deg and get a different height range out of it. I think it goes about 95 - 120 and 140 - 165. You can always slip a couple of packers under it for the 120 - 140 range.

Mick

[JontyG]

I use a plastic leg from Lincoln Sentry, I think it's a "star" brand. The leg is hinged to the base so you can fit them in the workshop and just fold them out and lock them vertical when you get on site. The legs themselves are in two pieces, one inside the other and you can pull it out, rotate it 90 deg and get a different height range out of it. I think it goes about 95 - 120 and 140 - 165. You can always slip a couple of packers under it for the 120 - 140 range.

Mick

Thanks Mick, will look into those as well, sound good.

[Cutting Edge]

I dont use any adjustable legs. I dont like them. They dont distribute the weight well over the base of the cabinet and over a large kitchen it can be hard to get it 100%level. Being out of level is usually the reason the door gaps arnt alligned properly. Most kitchens using adjustable legs also have pronounced gaps under the false kick front.

I perfer a proper kickboard. I build all my kicks from an exterior grade plywood so there is no issue with water damage. The front of them is laminate and then sprayed or what ever the customer wants. They have solid fronts and backs and also feature ribs that run front to back every 450mm. This provides perfect support for all the cabinets. The back and ribs of the kick are 10mm short and packed level using laminate plastic wedges. The front is scribbed to the floor. We plane and the beltsand the bottom edge of the kick so that the kick follows every contour of the floor and there are no gaps at all.

We screw all our kicks to the floor first. We use 40x40 steal brackets screwed to the front and back of the kick and then screwed down to the floor. This is especially important with island units.

We spend a fair bit of time making sure the kickboards are 100% level and square becuase without this you kitchen will look teriable.(doors out of line, gaps under kicks and varying overhangs.)

[Eli]

I'm with CE. You say you're installing tile, why not install the cabinets first and screw the bases right to the floor? Build kickboxes and level them, then all the cabinets and (down the road) the top will be level. Saves notching the cabinet boxes for the kick as well.

Why pay for tile you'll never see that will compromise installing the cabinets. That's a lot of weight to put on plastic feet I think. It is a bit of a pain to grout up to the kick, but you can gap fill with silicon then scribe a 5 mil face board for it after that. I even did one job where we used stainless flashing held with contact cement down there**. Looked pretty good peeking out from under. Depends on your tile too. Stone would be different from ceramic.

The last time I did this, there was a freestanding island in the plan. If I had used plastic feet, they would have snapped with all the big drawers slamming.

It probably takes a bit longer to install than feet, so not a choice a lot of times for installers, but this is where you win by trading your free time for a better product.


**a good tip I remembered, put painters tape on the bottom edge of flashing before install, then gap fill (caulk). Makes clean up easy breezy.

[jags]

sorry for the hyjack of the thread
but as i two am going to install my kitchen cabinet this weekend i just wanted to check my method .

and maybe help others in the process

As my kitchen is against two parallel brick walls i was going to set the cabinet hieght and scribe a line on the wall then screw in a leveled length of wood to the wall to rest the back of the cabinets on .I will also have the back legs attached for added support ..is this the easiest way to get the cabinets all level ?

Also what is the best way to screw the over head cabinets to a brick wall are blue wall plugs and a large screw adequate . i'm a bite worried about butting all that wieght on to wall plugs ?

thanks

rob

[Cutting Edge]

Overheads - Green wall plugs and 65mm-100mm 8 gauge screws.

[JontyG]

Thanks CE and Eli.

We screw all our kicks to the floor first. We use 40x40 steal brackets screwed to the front and back of the kick and then screwed down to the floor. This is especially important with island units.

So this is the kickbox that gets screwed to the floor? How are the brackets at the front hidden from view?

I gather a kickbox is the same as a ladder base, just different terminology?

After reading these posts, I think I may well go the kickbox route, which I'll level and anchor to the floor before tiling. I was then planning on fitting a face board in the form a skirting board to the front of the kick.

Thanks,
Jonty

[Cutting Edge]

I put the brackets behind the front of the kickboard. i.e screwed to the back of the front piece.

I make all my kick from waterproof plywood and then laminate/spray the front of it. This way its completly finished.

I would sugest tiling before putting the kickboards down. If you dont you create a well for water to collect. Also if you change the kitchen in the future and dont want to change the tiles you have to use the same layout.