Election

[Wood Butcher]

Keep it clean guys!!

[Rossluck]

And turnabout,

The point here is "unscrupulous", and while employers can be the bad guys, so by any stretch can unions. (and have been!)

That's right. And that's the overall point I was trying to make. It's pointless to single one side out and lambaste them as the enemy and sole cause of all problems. You need to see both sides of it: bad employers equals bad unions equals bad employers and so on. I's a closed circuit, and as Silent indicated, there are no obvious solutions.

Nothing personal intended Waldo, just part of the debate.

[Alastair]

Unfortunately I think that to hope for balance is a Utopian dream, as either side of the equation, by definition, will try to maximise the advantage available to them.

I will reserve my cynicism, but let's say that I hope that we can aspire to some form of conservative labour ethic:

To put it another way, I would like to believe we get Tony Blair, and not Harold Wilson

[Rossluck]

Unfortunately I think that to hope for balance is a Utopian dream, as either side of the equation, by definition, will try to maximise the advantage available to them.

I will reserve my cynicism, but let's say that I hope that we can aspire to some form of conservative labour ethic:

To put it another way, I would like to believe we get Tony Blair, and not Harold Wilson

I think we agree more than we disagree. I would hate to return to the days of newspapers full of news of strikes and disputes. I don't forget those days. But it takes two to tango ....

[Geoff Dean]

In 1986 I was working for a printing company that was a non union shop. Everyone was paid above award wages, around $50 per week, which was around 12% above the award, we had very good conditions, were happy with the employer and got on and did a good days work.

The business was sold to the local newspaper which was run to militant union rules. Within 5 minutes of the first day that the new owners were in charge we were visited by the shop steward who told all staff that they had to join the union. Most joined, I resisted.

I was then called to a meeting and told that I had to join or everyone else would be called out on strike. My reply was they could strike as much as they liked, I would turn up to work and get paid while they got no wages, see if I cared. I was told I would not be allowed to enter the premises if I did not join. I had to be restrained from putting said officials head thru a brick wall.

End result was I did not have to join, and the others who had joined then tried to unjoin from union, but were not allowed to do so. I think that they were more peed off about that than me.

The union made sure that everyone who was on over award wages lost those extras. They could not remove them from us, but every CPI or Indexed rise that happened for the next 3 years was not passed on until we were back on the award.

I have only had 3 jobs in 28 years, I left my first job after 8.5 years after the union standover tactics, my second employer was a good employer for 8 years, but then the business started going bad because of his excesses, and I left after 8.5 years also. The business went bellyup about 18 months later so I just got out in time.

I have been with my current employer now for nearly 11 years and in the whole 28 years, apart from 4 years as an apprentice, and 3 months after the union intervention with my first job, I have been paid over the award, currently almost 40% above, and not a single union rep to get that for me, in fact all they have ever wanted to do is have my salary decreased to the award.

My employers have always valued my expertise and work ethic and rewarded me accordingly. I have had a few other run ins with unions over the years, but by making them admit that they are not able to get me as good a conditions that I currently have, I have been able to make them leave me alone.

So you can understand why I think that unions are nothing but self serving, blackmailing extortionists, who have probably outlived there usefulness. They may have some relevance, but not while they continue to display the militant tactics that they have in the past.

[mic-d]

geez, I don't know why people are getting so hot under the collar, the election booths are still echoing with the sound of voters and already its the worst thing in the world to have happened. Give the new government a chance, the people have made their choice. You either have to accept the workings of the system and wait 3 years to excercise your rights again or bugger off to an undemocratic country where the government does not change - see how you might like that... We really have relatively very little to complain about in Australia.

Cheers
Michael

[Ashore]

geez, Give the new government a chance, Michael

Come on Mike its already tuesday and things arn't even back to 2001 let alone 1984 there've had their chance ,everything was going to be wonderful and back to the keating days straight after the election...um wasn't it

[HappyHammer]

It's pointless to single one side out and lambaste them as the enemy and sole cause of all problems.

Hey Woodbutcher shouldn't this post be moved to the cooking forum?

HH.

[echnidna]

or the gardening forum, there's a lotta fertiliser here

[Rossluck]

Hey Woodbutcher shouldn't this post be moved to the cooking forum?

HH.

lam·baste (lm-bst)

tr.v. lam·bast·ed, lam·bast·ing, lam·bastes Informal 1. To give a thrashing to; beat. See Synonyms at beat.
2. To scold sharply; berate.

[Studley 2436]

*LOL* love your sense of humour guys.

Have been in union shops and been a union member didn't do me any good at all. Don't want to return to those days.

Will Rudd be any good? Don't know I was pretty clear before the election that he had not told us much about himself and who he was what drove him other than being PM. We do know that there are many competing interests behind him such as unions and also the various parts of the chattering class that will lobby for political correctness, an apology to the "Stolen Generaration" (the fact is that there were many white children in the same period put in orphanages but there is no claim for an apology or compo to them. Right or wrong the government of the time believed it was doing the right thing) amongst others. Rudd seems to be presenting a classic liberal position on government. This includes free markets individual ability of each of us to decide our own path etc. Very different from the Socialist mantra of the ALP constitution. Lets see what happens.

Studley

[HappyHammer]

lam·baste(lm-bst)
tr.v. lam·bast·ed, lam·bast·ing, lam·bastes Informal 1. To give a thrashing to; beat. See Synonyms at beat.
2. To scold sharply; berate.

Errr I know what it means it was a joke...

joke /dʒoʊk/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[johk]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationnoun, verb, joked, jok·ing.
–noun

1.	something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act: He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.

2.	something that is amusing or ridiculous, esp. because of being ludicrously inadequate or a sham; a thing, situation, or person laughed at rather than taken seriously; farce: Their pretense of generosity is a joke. An officer with no ability to command is a joke.

3.	a matter that need not be taken very seriously; trifling matter: The loss was no joke.

4.	something that does not present the expected challenge; something very easy: The test was a joke for the whole class.

HH.

[silentC]

lead²

// (say led)
noun 1. Chemistry a heavy, comparatively soft, malleable bluish-grey metal, sometimes found native, but usually combined as sulfide, in galena. Symbol: Pb; relative atomic mass: 207.19; atomic number: 82; density: 11.34 at 20°C.
2. something made of this metal or one of its alloys.
3. a plumb-bob or mass of lead suspended by a line, as for taking soundings.
4. bullets; shot.
5. black lead or graphite.
6. a small stick of this as used in pencils.
7. Also, leading. Printing a thin strip of type metal or brass, less than type high, for increasing the space between lines of type.
8. frames of lead in which panes are fixed, as in windows of stained glass.
9. (plural) sheets or strips of lead used for covering roofs.
10. See red lead. See white lead.
11. Obsolete a cauldron.
--verb (t) 12. to cover, line, weight, treat, or impregnate with lead or one of its compounds.
13. Printing to insert leads between the lines of.
14. to fix (window glass) in position with leads.
--adjective 15. containing or made of lead.
--phrase 16. fill someone full of lead, Colloquial to shoot someone numerous times with a gun.
17. go down like a lead balloon, Colloquial to fail dismally; fail to elicit the desired response.
18. have a lead foot, Colloquial to be given to driving too fast.
19. heave the lead, Nautical to take a sounding with a lead.
20. lead in one's pencil, Colloquial (of a male) sexual vigour; virility.
21. swing the lead, Colloquial to be idle when there is work to be done. [Middle English lede, Old English lēad, related to German Lot plumb-bob]

[HappyHammer]

lead²

17. go down like a lead balloon, Colloquial to fail dismally; fail to elicit the desired response.

Story of my life mate....if only more people were on my wave length

HH.

[RETIRED]

OK, very clever but keep it on topic.