Election

[JDarvall]

BTW I think it was a very good question from the interviewer. Howard said he felt remorse for the stolen generation but stopped short of apologising for it, because it was not his place to apologise. People took him up on his choice of words, so it's entirely reasonable for them to do the same with Rudd. Rudd differentiates himself from Howard on his willingness to 'say sorry', so lets see if he actually does it in those words.

Whats the difference between 'feeling remorse' and 'sorry' ?

I don't like the thought of the stolen generation etc either. I think its horrible. But I'm not responsible for it.

When somebody says their sorry, their expressing remorse for some direct involvement in it......arn't they ?

Howards not directly responsible for it. Nor is anyone here. He shouldn't have to say he's sorry. Nor should Rudd. Its a rediculous expectation.

[silentC]

One of my first experiences with unions was in 1987. I was working as a labourer on a building site in Sydney. It was a multi-residential housing site, so commercial but not like a shopping centre or office block. One day a union rep came onto the site and called a 'meeting'. He wanted a show of hands on how many union members there were. About 3 blokes put their hands up. He said "the rest of you have until Friday to sign up and pay your dues, or we are going to close this site and none of you will be able to work here until you do".

I said to my boss that I couldn't afford to join a union (can't remember how much it was going to be, but it was more than my weekly take home pay). He said not to worry, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. The union guy never came back.

[silentC]

Howards not directly responsible for it. Nor is anyone here. He shouldn't have to say he's sorry. Nor should Rudd. Its a rediculous expectation.

I agree. I'll be disappointed if he does. The thing is Rudd made it an election issue - "we'll ratify Kyoto, we'll roll back Work Choices, we'll apologise to Indigenous Australia". I just thought it was amusing that he was playing word games over it. That's why I said "there's hope for the boy" - very Howardesque I thought. Will be interesting to see what he eventually does say, if and when.

[Sebastiaan56]

I only hope we are past the days of

Gee what do we have coming up Christmas or Easter or a long weekend AND . . . .

Let me guess it's a

Transport union strike,

A fuel strike,

A teachers strike

Actually the beer strike before XMAS was the cruelest cut of all. That said I expect those days are behind us, Hawke and Keating nobbled that stuff long before Johnny came onto the scene.

As for the apology, I think as a gesture of reconciliation it is extremely powerful and should be done. The affected people seem to need it to move on so it seems a small amount of largesse for a large gain in good will. It would be even better if the ownership of the land was returned, not to mention funding for womens refuges etc.

The future fund, well.... they put Telstra into it didnt they..... One way or another they will have their pound of flesh. As to any party ripping out that resource, we will have to wait and see.

Sebastiaan

[Waldo]

Give Rudd a full quarter in office Jan-March and we'll see:

• unemployment up

• GDP down

• we'll see more millitant union strikes like that in Newcastle in 96 or was it 97?

Tonight we'll see the local markets bomb dive.

Australia will be in the poo.

[silentC]

The affected people seem to need it to move on

I don't know, every affected person I've ever heard speaking publicly about it has said they don't need or want our apology. It wont change anything and it just gives people somewhere to focus blame. What they need to do is move on from it. Take the assistance that is given, ask for help where it is needed, and accept that past wrongs cannot be undone. They need to take some responsibility for their own future.

[TEEJAY]

My memory may not be 100% but I only recall Hawke beating the crap out of one union strike and that was the upper class silver tail pilot's union.

Don't recall either Keating or Hawk taking on any other.

Have any workers union had a flogging with them?

I do recall the Wharves and Liberals but . . .

[Big Shed]

"We'll all be ruined," said Hanrihan, "Before the year is out."

Arr well, we have lived through changes in government before, we will live through this one too, it is just a pity that it is such a waste of money.

Next???

Give Rudd a full quarter in office Jan-March and we'll see:

• unemployment up

• GDP down

• we'll see more millitant union strikes like that in Newcastle in 96 or was it 97?

Tonight we'll see the local markets bomb dive.

Australia will be in the poo.

Market seems to like Kevin Eleven,..............up 140 points or over 2%!

Oh just looked,the $A is up 0.5c as well, there may be life after Howard after all.............

[echnidna]

My memory may not be 100% but I only recall Hawke beating the crap out of one union strike and that was the upper class silver tail pilot's union.

Don't recall either Keating or Hawk taking on any other.

Have any workers union had a flogging with them?

I do recall the Wharves and Liberals but . . .

BLF

[Rossluck]

Once again I detect in these posts this terrible fear of unions and strikes. It's completely unfounded for two reasons:

(1) society has changed to the extent that we are more affluent and in a booming economy (mainly because of WA's mineral boom), and while we are enjoying such wealth there is less of a need for employers to screw the workers.

(2) Unions have never been the oppressive, dark and destructive force that some here would suggest. Apart from a those few unions that occasionally lost the plot over time because of power and greed, they have in the main been beneficial and the only source of power for workers. I annoys the hell out of me that people who have benefited enormously because of unions over the years so quickly decry them. It reminds me of people who run the police down, and then when they need help they're desperately phoning 000 to get help from a copper as soon as possible. In other words, the union and the police are only mongrels when you don't need them.

I always declare my political allegiances in this forum because I abhor the practice of people pretending they are "swinging voters", neutral and objective, and then run a very consistent string of strong anti-Labor and anti-union arguments.

[Pusser]

Whats the difference between 'feeling remorse' and 'sorry' ?

I don't like the thought of the stolen generation etc either. I think its horrible. But I'm not responsible for it.

When somebody says their sorry, their expressing remorse for some direct involvement in it......arn't they ?

Howards not directly responsible for it. Nor is anyone here. He shouldn't have to say he's sorry. Nor should Rudd. Its a rediculous expectation.

He was sorry for the interest rates hike - does that mean he caused it? No - it was economic factors outside his control as was the economic groth and the low interest rates.

[Waldo]

(2) Unions have never been the oppressive, dark and destructive force that some here would suggest. Apart from a those few unions that occasionally lost the plot over time because of power and greed, they have in the main been beneficial and the only source of power for workers. I annoys the hell out of me that people who have benefited enormously because of unions over the years so quickly decry them. It reminds me of people who run the police down, and then when they need help they're desperately phoning 000 to get help from a copper as soon as possible. In other words, the union and the police are only mongrels when you don't need them.

You reckon?

[Gingermick]

You reckon?

Ask the people with asbestosis.

[Christopha]

(2) Unions have never been the oppressive, dark and destructive force that some here would suggest. Apart from a those few unions that occasionally lost the plot over time because of power and greed, they have in the main been beneficial and the only source of power for workers. I annoys the hell out of me that people who have benefited enormously because of unions over the years so quickly decry them. It reminds me of people who run the police down, and then when they need help they're desperately phoning 000 to get help from a copper as soon as possible. In other words, the union and the police are only mongrels when you don't need them.

And just when did you arrive from your alternative universe????

[Ashore]

Once again I detect in these posts this terrible fear of unions and strikes. It's completely unfounded for two reasons:

(2) Unions have never been the oppressive, dark and destructive force that some here would suggest. Apart from a those few unions that occasionally lost the plot over time because of power and greed, they have in the main been beneficial and the only source of power for workers.

Never went to sea for a living then ?