What will bite me on the a....?

[DNL]

Righto lads.....it all started when I took of the tiles off the wall behind an old wood burning heater, which is now gone. We were going to remove the wall between the kitchen/meals area and the bedroom next year, but exuberance has taken over and the wall is now being removed.

The house is not that wide and the trusses are supported on external walls. No load bearers inside the house - it just aint that big! I've had builder come around a quote for wall removal, fill a doorway to laundry, relocate laundry door, remove the linen press and fill the hole which will be left when I rip the pantry out. Yep a new kitchen is going in so some major works happening. Problem is the builder can't do the job until next year, kitchen arrives in four weeks. Other issue was the price! PRICE - God I should have done a trade 30 years ago! Any builders want an adult apprentice?

Being a bit of tight wad I thought I could recycle the timbers from the wall to be removed and use that timber to fill in the doorway and pantry, plus I should be able to use the timber for the new laundry door, which is being shifted from the kitchen to the hall....so I've started to remove the wall. Got one side mostly off, tomorrow I will tackle cornice, head and foot plates look pretty basic, with studs and noggins all simple and easy to remove. Plenty of wood there to re-use without having to buy any more.

Skirts have come off easily, door trims, architraves, frames etc are coming off nicely, looks like I will need to do some patching off the floor boards where the wall currently is and I'm sure there will be a strip of ceiling missing when the head plate comes out, so that will need patching. I've identified all power issues and have a sparky on standby to come and deal with that.
My issue is this is going too smoothly! Is there something likely to bite me on the backside? Are there any surprises I might get when removing a non load bearing wall?

cheers
Dave
BTW - I really don't think I will become an apprentice!

[Fuzzie]

"Are there any surprises I might get when removing a non load bearing wall?"

It wouldn't be a surprise if you knew in advance.

Sounds to me like you've got a good handle on the job. Should go smoothly. Good luck.

[womble]

My issue is this is going too smoothly! Is there something likely to bite me on the backside? Are there any surprises I might get when removing a non load bearing wall?

yes. you might find it IS a load bearing wall


apart from that there should be none.

[Fuzzie]

A non load bearing wall may however be providing some degree of lateral bracing. These days it would be by plywood sheeting the pine stud frame, but an old hardwood framed house might have diagonal braces checked into the studs. You probably don't want to remove too much diagonal bracing.

[DNL]

cheers Fuzzie

did the double check up in the roof and yep all trusses supported on the outer walls. Too late now as the wall has been removed, and yes I can see the diagonal cut out in the head plate where a diagonal brace used to be.

My brother-in-law, who is a structural engineer, just happen to drop by as I was taking the wall out. He couldn't help but pick up a hammer and wrecking bar and give it a go as well. He said the wall was initially there when the house was first built over 30 years ago, then taken out for the doorways that are on the plan, was then filled back in as can be seen from all the pine studs and noggins. Now we have removed the wall again, but as he said, at least I will know how to rebuild it when I change my mind...not likely!.

The house is only 11 squares and was a 4 br, with no living space to speak off...well that has changed today! The hall wall to come out to totally remove that bedroom and presto - living space.

All has been checked, double checked and checked again for good measure and I feel more comfortable knowing the roof won't cave in. Thanks for the words advice though, it did make me double check and I'm happy the end result.

cheers
Dave

[DNL]

I should add - the job is far from finished - so the end result was for todays work only. Plenty more to do and will post some pics when the camera is charged!

cheers

[DvdHntr]

A non load bearing wall may however be providing some degree of lateral bracing. These days it would be by plywood sheeting the pine stud frame, but an old hardwood framed house might have diagonal braces checked into the studs. You probably don't want to remove too much diagonal bracing.

I think you will find that Strap Brace with Tie is very common nowadays and they will only use the ply on short walls or in levels that have very little bracing walls.

[pawnhead]

Strap Brace with Tie

That's good stuff. You don't have to cut it in as you do with angle bracing, and you can adjust/tension it afterwards to get your walls plumb.

[silentC]

We used a lot of it on our place, but in a few places the engineer specified bracing sheets. We used 24# zincalume sheet. They use a lot of ply bracing sheets on brick veneer buildings down here.

[DvdHntr]

When I do bracing my usual procedure is to use SBT in all the walls over 2.7 metres and then any short walls in the corners of the building get ply braces. If I am short then the steps in order are usually:
look to lap the strap braces
then ply the longer walls
then ply both sides of all walls
and in extreme cases I will move to use the heavier gauge plying with masses of nails and special tie downs.

Sometimes there is one entire wall that is glazed and you can get no bracing at all. Then you get into the realm of ceiling straps and heavy bracing internal walls.

I have only ever had one case where I said that the bracing couldn't be done. A church up north had windows all around and rafters that changed pitch and length along the ridge line. The architect had created a structural nightmare. I literally had two walls to brace and both were only about 5m long. The building was at least 20 square metres from memory. They couldn't accept my answer that they needed to put more walls in so they went around and asked some other engineers. Eventually they came back and said OK to the more walls.

[pawnhead]

I have only ever had one case where I said that the bracing couldn't be done. A church up north had windows all around and rafters that changed pitch and length along the ridge line. The architect had created a structural nightmare.

Come on Dvd. You should rise to the challenge, and put in some skyhooks. They're an artichokes favourite structural member.

[DNL]

If I understand correctly, the lateral brace stops the wall frame from moving along the length of the plates and moving out of square? If I am removing an internal non load bearing wall I should have no issue with lateral bracing of the wall - because there is no wall to brace?

I'd say the lateral brace was removed when the wall was originally fitted with a double door opening, and when the wall was filled in again, the lateral bracing was taken care of by the plasterboard and cornice.

Is my understanding correct?

[journeyman Mick]

...............Is my understanding correct?

Not quite, the brace keeps the wall from racking which in turn prevents the abutting outside wall from being pushed in, and by extension, helps to prevent the house from being collaped like a house of cards.

Mick

[DNL]

thanks Mick - I had a good look at it all last night - researched the net and understand the need for bracing on external and internal walls to counter the outside pressures on the external walls, I then drew the collapse of external wall as a possible outcome.

Hence, I've left the remaining wall frame in place until I get more advice and look to see if I need to add bracing in the roof and floor.

This was useful http://www.ejse.org/Archives/Fulltex...1/20020101.doc as was www.pryda.com.au/uploads/Product%20Guides/Bracing.pdf

Thanks to you also Fuzzie for drawing my attention to the lateral bracing issue.

The things you learn!

cheers

[DvdHntr]

Any wall can be a bracing wall. Internal Non-loadbearing walls are not immune. What they do is install shear blocks on both sides of the truss bottom chords.