Lifting old Klip-Lok (can you, or can't you?..)

[Batpig]

Dear Sirs,

On a recent thread that I started in the Painting, Plastering, etc. section, I asked some questions about repairing a plaster ceiling in a Flat that is on the top floor of an old block that was built in the early '70s (the replies to which were Bluddy Marvellous). As stated in that thread, I can't get into the ceiling because the roof is indeed a "Flat" one. I am now toying with the idea, however, of trying to lift up the end of a roof sheet to see if I can get a look at what's going on in the way of ceiling fixings (ie. whether adhesive was used), and also the insulation situation. Before you all get nervous, it appears that I can do this quite safely from a wide landing that does not have any roof overhang above it.

As stated, the block was built in the early '70's. The roof sheeting looks very much like Klip-Lok 406 (if it was available back then...) There certainly aren't any screws visible except for the single row along the ends of the roof on each side. The supports appear to be spaced at about 1.35m.

What do you think my chances are of getting the Klip-Lok back down onto the concealed clips if I do pull some of it up?

Also, can anyone confirm that Zincalume wasn't around back in the early 70's, because I think I'll have to get up on the roof and do the old Rust Converter And Cold Gal Thing to fix up some rust patches in order to protect all the hard work that will go into the ceiling repairs...

Many Thanks,
Batpig.

[Dirty Doogie]

Well I've tried lifting Kliplock but I always bent the sheets. There is an art to it but I havent mastered it LOL. I've watched demolition teams take sheets off by they got under the roof and used a crowbar on the clips.

I started building in 1976 and they had Zincalume then. I remember making a roof out of Zincalume then.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

It can be unclipped by simply lifting one edge of the sheet and flexing the sheet up 'til it comes adrift. Not so far as to permanently bend the sheet, of course! If you have a pair of helping hands, (always recommended when roofing! ) a jimmy bar at the clip can help to 'pop' the sheet off while the sheet is flexed up. This is the least damaging way of doing it, IMHO.

It's not recommended though, as Kliplok's not designed to be unclipped - it can damage the clips or, in a worst case scenario, the cladding.

[billbeee]

Batpig,
I'd say you can do it OK as Skew says, work your way along one edge lifting of a few clips, or even the full row, then the same to the next sheet and that will come out easier.
If you try to just get a small section up you most probably will kink it.
Be prepared to then cut your sarking (and then tape it back up again), before you see whats going on in the roof.

If you do decide to take the sheets off, take it easy and try not to damage them. Stack them in order.
Do what's needed in the roof and then replace the sheets with external fastenings. Put them back in the reverse order that they came off, so that the crimps hopefully join as they were before.

Use a lump of wood under your hammer, or use a rubber mallet, when you are belting them into place.

That is throw away the old clips. Fix with the correct screws and washer assemblies. They get the stuff down solid. I have not seen Kliplok fixed with clips since new regs. came out after cyclone Tracy. (I am in Darwin). We have done heaps of roof upgrades like this in the 80's, where we had to insert HD bolts and batten straps etc.

You can tell if it is heavy galv or Zincalume just by looking at it. Galv has that typical coarse uneven look to it. You might also see that your flashing are soldered at the joints.

Cheers
Bill

[Batpig]

Thanks for the replies, Fellas...

Bill, the flashings are indeed soldered at the joints, so Gal I presume...

Skew, I think you're on the money when you suggest a combination of just a little bit of lifting up by my Bro while I pry ahead of him with a Jemmy Bar (But I hear you Doogie. Stuffup is the least offensive of my self-appointed middle names...)

Bill, I just want to look in to the ceiling at this stage, so instead of unclipping a full row of fixings across at a time, I will try to unlap just a full single sheet on both of it's sides along it's whole length, and then pull it sideways out of the way.

To avoid mucking around with the flashing, I'll start at the second lap in and see if I can pry that into popping apart, and then come back to the first lap and do the same (therefore less chance of damaging the sheet by walking or kneeling on it when it is loosened). Whether I can then get the loosened sheet to then twist out from under the overlocking clip ends on the far side of the sheet is another matter... But what else can you do.

Thank-you again Gents. Cross all fingers.
Batpig.

[Make it work]

Hey Batty, be sure to check that the screws that fix the clip to the support are still tight before putting the sheets back, you may disturb them when pulling and prying against them.

[Batpig]

10-4 MIW,

I'll make sure that I take:

1) Drill/driver with sockets (and any nut-drivers I can dig up).
2) Full box of screwdrivers
3) Hammer and Impact Screwdriver (as in the "hit-it-on-the-end" variety)
4) Can of RP7 (to spray on the overlapping ribs before and after separation)
5) Sharpened Jemmy (but maybe ever-so-slightly curved-in-plan edge so it is easier to get it under the edge of the sheets)
6) Some flat little piece of woods of slightly different thicknesses (to raise the bottom of the Jemmy up to the perfect height for leverage, and to spread the load out on the roof sheet under the Jemmy without leaving a dent)
7) Stanley knife and duct-tape for cutting and retaping anything I find under the sheeting
8) A printout of this post as a checklist... (I'm not kidding! I'm famous for turning up with everything in the boot except some minor but nonetheless incredibly important little bluddy do-da...)
9) Rubber mallet! (see, I didn't remember that until just now, and Bill even said to take one earlier in the thread...)

Here's my Tip for the year (because it'll take me another twelve months to think of another decent one...): I don't know what sort of shoes the Pro Roofies use, but I'll tell you what, Dunlop KT26 joggers (the original ones with the rubber lug soles!) are surely the best way to go when you're walking around on thin sheet roofs. When I was putting the Titan up, the joggers I first wore with the solid Poly soles were leaving little kink-dents here and there, so I changed into the rubber-lugged KT's, and they were just so much more forgiving...

Cheers,
Batpig.

[journeyman Mick]

.............I don't know what sort of shoes the Pro Roofies use,..............

They used to use the old Dunlop Volleys, but the new ones have a different formula rubber and don't grip nearly as well. Someone's making a copy of them called "Rocco's" with the original latex ruber soles.

Mick

[Make it work]

ALL the roofers that used to come to my work to buy screws wore Volleys while on the roof, but they used to come in the shop with thongs on. Always really brown tan on the legs and the whitest feet...

Alan

[Batpig]

Alan and Mick,

If I'm remembering the Volleys correctly, the soles are flat underneath, not terribly thick, and not overly spongy either because they were wholly rubber instead of having that foamy in-between filling that the KT's have got. I would say the Roofies used them because they had the same requirements as Tennis players, namely grip and the ability to swivel on either the heel or the ball of their foot. And those guys usually get to work on reasonable roofs, or at least on roofs where the client wouldn't be coming up for a close look (the client: , then ). But if you're on a shed roof where, ahhh, ummm - how can I put it... where the designers pencil was extremely sharp... it's hard to beat the KT's for sheer forgivingness... (or buying an extra pair of battens...)

Batpig.

[scottyb]

I have pulled some Kliplock succesfully using a claw hammer under the overlapping sheet edge and prying gently right next to the clip until it pops loose. Once the first clip is loose the going is easier. Then just make sure clips are not bent and are properly aligned when replacing.