Grey Water System Odours

[silentC]

Silent, at the risk of hijacking this thread (?), could you give some more details about the air pump.

I am using a 750W sump pump (Davey D40VA) and you're right the running costs add up.

Mine is a Sakuragawa air blower. They are quite pricey, about $800 I think. Our system is a Supatreat. Going back 5 years or so they came standard with one of these. Then they dropped the air pump and started installing them with an Orange submersible pump. Apparently the sump pump is more reliable - they were having a lot of maintenance problems with the air pumps. It was a commercial decision to cut down on maintenance but unfortunately it doubles the cost of running the system. The old man got hold of an air blower and we have pulled the sump pump out. The sump pump uses about 3kwh per day, the air pump uses about 1.

[spartan]

Ok, I made a call to the local council and asked them...what type of grey water system do I have?

They were pretty helpful...but only about half right.....

I've taken some photos of the system

The first photo is of the outside of the tank....lid open.

The next photo is the inside...its an everhard 450 litre tank. There in the centre of the tank appears to 100mm pipe with a cap and a 25mm conduit coming out.

There appears to be no power/pump involved....when the water get to a certain level it drains off about 20 m to the smaller tank in picture 3....from there its ag pipe dispersed to the backyard.

I think the problem can be seen in picture 2 - at times there is too much water left in the tank for too long. There is probably about 150-200 litres of water there. if no additional water is added for an extended period of time...then I think that's when the stink comes in.

I've taken to the gurney to it and put lime in there as well - that get rid of the smell until it fills again....

Any idea?

[Qldp]

It sounds like you have a system that syphons the grey water to your trenches.
I have never heard of this type before, however in theory it would work great under the right conditions. The syphon action would release a large amount of water every time it drops(syphons) thus ensuring no sediment build-up in your pipes.

First problem that others have mentioned is the retention time in the tank. If the water sits for ANY length of time it will smell. So no water no smell.
To overcome the water sitting in the tank you would need to prove it was a syphon valve which is pic 2. You have two choices, you could dismantle the valve, which would allow the water to flow from your house directly to the dispersal area. Or you could bypass the holding tank(which from what I can see is of no use at all.The only reason there is a holding tank installed on grey water is if you need a pump to pump the waste water up hill).

To bypass the holding tank would mean some digging.

The other possibility is that your black water from your septic tank is also going into your holding tank.A drainage plan from your council should help.

The other problem of the smell coming back into the bathroom could be related to your holding tank dropping 200lt in one hit which could syphon the water from the floor waste or any other trap. Your house vent should overcome this, but if your vent is only 50mm it may not.

When the tank drains, does it drain out totally(can you see the bottom and the outlet)?

Just a few Ideas.

[spartan]

thanks... The septic tank is separate - and was only completely emptied a couple of months ago...I checked it and it is no where near over flowing....

You point about the house vent is interesting....

I have three from memory..one near my kitchen and grease trap, and one each in the toilets in the main part of the house.

The closest one to the bathroom that smells is the kitchen one and thats 7 metres away.....

[spartan]

I just thought I'd close the loop for those who are either interested or who may be searching for solutions or things to try for similar problems....

After this last thread I had a handful of plumbers around to give me a quote on what was needed to fix the problem....

Most agreed that a second mortgage was the first thing that was required....

So I told them to go hold a bank because that was the only way they were going to get that sort of money.....

So there I was at work...talking to some of my colleagues...actually pondering over how good Big Shed's mathamatics was when I posed the question to collective group...

A mate of mine told me a story about a long retired plumber that had a fix for him....

Now I explained the problem about grey water odours and all that as described here and the message got was pretty clear....

any smell in a toilet/bathroom try this trick first....at least where there is an s-trap

1. Get a glass of water...and pour it around the rubber seal where the toilet enters the floor. If the water drains away - you have fumes entering from the septic/sewer....

So i did this and the water drains away relatively quickly.....I think that this makes sense as the toilet has been in for 20 years or so.....

So out with the silcon and 10 minutes later no smell.....problem fixed....

The frustrating thing was that I put up with it for months.... Everything led me to believe that it was the grey water...50 plumbers told spend a million bucks, get a jack hammer to that new slab etc....

and 20c of silicon was all that was needed....

That's why life is great you learn something new every day....This provided me with lots of lessons....

[Qldp]

Bloody hell - how simple was that.

Thanks for posting again, I would not have picked that one. Sometimes we try to complicate things we don't need to.

[Ramps]

LOL
Spartan

funny that we had the the same prob at my old man's house a couple of years ago. The house was 28 yrs old and he was blaming the drains in the bathroom etc. Pouring draino down the drain and claiming that it seemed to work for a while ... I was claiming it was coming form the loo ... again a bit of silicon around the seal and all fixed ... didn't think to mention this as I had assumed that you knew it came from the greywater system

good on ya

fixed!

[woodbe]

they dropped the air pump and started installing them with an Orange submersible pump. Apparently the sump pump is more reliable - they were having a lot of maintenance problems with the air pumps.

I think they're wrong about the reliability. We've been through several of those Orange pumps since they converted the system over. The big advantage they have is that they are virtually silent. Orange is just a cheap chinese pump, they cost a fraction of a decent pump.

woodbe.

[elkangorito]

In the late eighties, I used to work for Biocycle, a company that made domestic & commercial waste water treatment systems. I learnt a lot while working for them.

Possibly, the most important thing about any type of treatment system is the BOD (Biochemical Oxygen Demand). The organisms in the water/effluent use oxygen as they 'evolve'. If the demand for oxygen exceeds the supply of oxygen, you end up with lots of undissolved solids & a stink (rotting organisms).

There are many solutions used to overcome these problems. By far, the most simple & common is the use of aerobic bacteria that already exists in water. This bacteria is stimulated oxygenating the water. The easiest way to do this is by using an air blower.

In addition to the above method, certain products can be used to ensure that the build up of solids & smell is virtually eliminated. One of those products that I have used in the past is Actizyme. It's available at supermarkets throughout Australia& is not expensive if used correctly.

The worst thing you can do for any waste water treatment system is pour 'draino' down the sink, as it kills lots of useful bacteria.

In households with septic systems, other problems can become apparent if the family has all been using antibiotics - the antibiotics released in urine will also kill the useful bacteria in the waste water treatment system.
Families that traditionally use lots of oil in their cooking also have problems with the rapid build up of solids in their system & they also suffer many drain blockages.
Actizyme will prevent all of these things. BTW, I don not work for nor am I connected with the product in any way, shape or form.