In regards to round windows...

[sognal]

Hi all,

a few days ago I saw a TV ad showing a round window in an attic, and it reallly caught my attention because it appeared to be able to draw light into the room quite effectively. (This might be a camera trick, but I remember seeing a similar effect with round church windows).

I was teaching English in Japan 2 years back I saw round windows on a big scale - i.e 6 or 8 feet in diameter. They looked fantastic,and harmonious/balanced....somehow engendered a feeling of tranquility.

It got me thinking as to how appealing this type of window is, and if the above effect with the light is typical, I am curious as to why this type of window shape is not common.

I can imagine that such windows are not mass-produced, and that this would bring the cost up relative to square/rectangular ones, but as evidenced by some of the McMansions around, there is no shortage of fools with money.

Is it because these windows are difficult for builders to allow for/build around?
As such, are they something which many builders stay away from, and as a result, the skills to fit them never improve?

Or is it just that such windows are not in fashion except by those who can afford architects?

Also, if any of you have experience with round windows in your houses,etc, are there any other pros or cons you can think of about them?

Many thanks, I look forward to hearing your opinions....

[Grunt]

We renovated a house in Brunswick a few years back. The house was a Californian Bungalow. As a feature, we made the ceiling 20' high, put in downlights and at the top end of one wall we had a round window. The bathroom was light and airy. It looked just spectacular. Bugger to clean though.

The builder didn't have an problems with it. I don't know exactly what construction method he used.

[jackiew]

i'm doing a bricklaying evening course at the local tafe ( lets say i won't be giving up my day job quite yet ) and we get to see what the apprentices have been doing that day. It would seem that apprentice bricklayers learn how to do vertical round window shapes in brick - they have a round window shaped bit of board and build round that. As I suspect it is much easier to make a round hole in plasterboard than it is to make a nice circular window shaped hole in a wall with bricks I can't see why it should cause a builder a problem at all. The biggest resistance is likely to be from the manufacturer of windows - anything out of the ordinary seems to throw them totally - all I wanted was a casement and an awning window in the same frame and there was much sucking in of breath and disbelief that that was what I wanted :confused:

[ozwinner]

i'm doing a bricklaying evening course at the local tafe ( lets say i won't be giving up my day job quite yet )

Phew, thank goodness for that.

Al

[jackiew]

As a brick wall consisting of 4 bricks long + 1 brick turning the corner, two layers high took me all evening and much swearing I think i'd get a better hourly rate as a check-out chick I definately won't be tendering for building someone a round window any time this decade. However I'm learning enough that should I have cause to employ a bricklayer I will at least have some vague idea what s/he should be doing ( or not doing ). The tradesman's nightmare a customer who has an opinion

[ozwinner]

However I'm learning enough that should I have cause to employ a bricklayer I will at least have some vague idea what s/he should be doing ( or not doing ). The tradesman's nightmare a customer who has an opinion

Do you think so, I could baffle you with bull in an instant.
Like they say, bull always baffles brains.

Al

[PJP]

jackiew

almost everyone I have meet has either been a bricklayer or brickies lab.
Its so easy that everyone is a supposed expert. I also know that I could baffle you with bullsh*t in an instant,although I've only been laying bricks
for twenty five years.With a bit more homework you would also find that you can purchase round windows,and I do agree with you,they do look great but can be (and are) very expensive

pjp

[journeyman Mick]

Fitting round windows wouldn't present any real challenges (haven't actually fitted any but have lined inside boats around portlights etc). Making and fitting architraves would be more time consuming and thus add to the cost but the real killer costwise would be the manufacture of the window itself. Cutting the glass would be easy enough but any frame would need to be custom made. A timber frame would be quite time consuming and I'm not sure that the standard aluminium profiles could be rolled round without distortion. Boat windows can be made in pretty much any shape and are always made with rounded corners but the aluminium profile is made to fit flange-like onto a flat surface, don't think they'd seal well on brickwork. Pretty much anything is possible however - as long as you're prepared to pay for it. :eek:

Mick

[sognal]

Many thanks everyone,

I've learnt more about round windows here than several hours fruitlessly surfing the Net a few nights back!

Jackiew, good luck with your bricklaying course....I'm told these things get better with practice ! And don't worry, my question here is purely academic - I wouldn't have the 1st clue about building/making anything much....how much more expensive ARE round windows (ballpark ratio) ?
I can understand what you mean about the manufacturers, but that's OK, I found a round window manufacturer in Geelong on-line

Grunt, why was the round window you mentioned a bugger to clean - do you mean it was difficult to get to its outside (because the window wouldn't open), and/or it was too high to reach from outside....or was it because dirt got trapped in the window itself? I'm a touch confused -if anything I would've thought curves would be easier to clean than right angles....

[bitingmidge]

how much more expensive ARE round windows (ballpark ratio)

BALLPARK RATIO
Round window:standard sliding aluminium window
is the same ratio as
Ballpark:Two beers and a packet of chips while watching the game.

The reason for the cost is quite quantifiable though:
Waste: Glass comes in square/rectangular sheets, so there are no economies. Similarly timber has to be shaped out of rectangular bits: lots of waste.

Aluminium frames can be rolled quite successfully, but there is one heck of a job getting them flashed properly.

Labour: Even in a stud wall frame a square hole, trim it to an octagon (probably good enough except for big circles), then dick around for ever trying to get the flashings to sit down without cutting them.

Oh...you wanted one that opened!!

Now watch someone find the website for the guys that are doing them in rotomoulded plastic and blow me out of the water!

All can be done, and as Mick pointed out, boats use them as a matter of course. Of course boats cost a lot more than houses to build as well.

One of the sad things about our Oz mind set, is that we by and large make aesthetic decisions based on size and economy rather than on aesthetics and value. If a round window is appropriate, I would rather do without a little floor area in order to pay for it, and have a nicer place to live rather than a larger one....but then I have just finished converting a perfectly good three bedroom house into a two bedroom one, so I guess my viewpoint isn't the norm.

P

[PJP]

to quote from journeyman mick
"Pretty much anything is possible however - as long as you're prepared to pay for it."
A few of the comments have told you how easy these round windows are to
do and also how they are only an extra " two beers and a packet of chips" on top.
Aluminium round windows to go into brickveneer construction are generally the worst because they either have a timber reveal or are designed for square set plaster .these generally don't provide much provision for a cavity and therefore they can be difficult to flash correctly.(they are usually easier
later).
Aluminium round windows in cavity brickwork are generally easier to flash ,although you still get suppliers that make them with narrow stiles.(ever seen a storm mould on a round window in eleven inch brickwork).
The best looking round windows in my opinion are timber and are generally
made of western red or similar.These are generally easy to flash and look the best by far.
Back to the original quotes;
Mick is dead right,you get what you pay for.
Bear in mind that instalation of these windows for a carpenter is relatively
simple(except in full timber construction)and for bricklayers they can be quite time consuming,there is a brick on edge all around and every course must be cut on a brick saw.Two beers and a packet of chips would equate to a BBQ and a night on it in my eyes.
I actually seem to do more cedar luvers in gable ends than round windows lately.Look great too
sorry for waffting pjp

[sognal]

Good on you all,

I now have a far better idea of the pros and cons of all this - if I ever do build a house!

At this stage it's just daydreaming, but it helps to know the technical side of things.

As mentioned by Bitingmidge, I agree the reason we don't see many of them around is the general lack of aesthetic appreciation here in Oz...but that's cool, it'll just look that much more unique !

Sognal