Electrics & Plumbing - What Am I Allowed To Do?

[Tas_Dean]

I'd just like to piont out that it is not illegal to use the third core in the cable as long as the core is sleeved with an appropriate colour (usually red, white or any active colour heat shrink) at either end.

I think you will find AS300:2000 prevents sleeving an earth wire. Any other colour yes, but not earth. Prior to the 2000 revision you could sleeve an earth, but not since. Someone with a copy of 3000:2000 might clarify that for us.

Yonnee, the rules for caravan wiring stood long before the 2001 revision. Somewhere around here I have a copy of the 1993 revision, or did have. I'm not saying that that's not what you were told, but the rules certainly have been around for a fair while.

So, even with the entire house dead, and the pen registering it as dead, you'd still fiddle about trying to get the wires in the terminals without ever touching the exposed wires ? ...

No stuffing around required. That's what long nose pliers are for.

[Yonnee]

Just for the record Im not here taking personal shots at anyone,...

Neither am I mate. All for a good healthy debate.

[Yonnee]

Yonnee, the rules for caravan wiring stood long before the 2001 revision. Somewhere around here I have a copy of the 1993 revision, or did have. I'm not saying that that's not what you were told, but the rules certainly have been around for a fair while.

I realise there's probably been some sort of reg's since the old SEC as I recall seeing SEC stickers on some older caravans windows, but as for what we were training for was using a plug-in tester that showed whether a GPO was wired correctly, and if it wasn't, it was better if you didn't touch it... BUT... If you had to make it safe...

It certainly wasn't a recommendation for complete re-wiring of an entire Caravan.

[another termite]

I'd just like to piont out that it is not illegal to use the third core in the cable as long as the core is sleeved with an appropriate colour (usually red, white or any active colour heat shrink) at either end.

According to the Australian wireing rules 3000:2000 rule 3.8.2 green/yellow, Green or Yellow colour insulated conductors shall not be sleeved to indicate live conductors

[JDarvall]

No stuffing around required. That's what long nose pliers are for.

right.

Well, I seen a couple of electricians roll the tip of unsheathed wires in there finger tips after just turning the mains power off....to get the job done faster. Professional looking blokes. Been there , seen everything sort of bloke.

Another bloke. younger bloke this time,,,,used a voltage tester light, then did it as well.

So they were being reckless eh ?

[silentC]

So they were being reckless eh ?

Yeah, and the mongrels probably jaywalk too.

It's a steady decline into anarchy when you start twisting wires with your bare fingers. Not to mention rough on the fingertips.

[Honorary Bloke]

There's a word that describes this thread, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Silent, can you help out? Is the word inane?

[silentC]

I don't know but I bet zeroseven wishes he'd never opened his mouth!!

If it's any consolation, zeroseven, these threads always end up this way. Some of us can't help ourselves.

[zeroseven]

I don't know but I bet zeroseven wishes he'd never opened his mouth!!

If it's any consolation, zeroseven, these threads always end up this way. Some of us can't help ourselves.

I was expecting a couple of replies along the lines of you can do X but certainly not Y. But this is much more exciting with people getting into a good old fashioned healthy debate about it.

I'm still waiting for someone to argue the reasons for not being able to do your own plumbing because it could go horribly wrong and the house could, err....float away...or my tiles could get wet. I'm sure there must be far more serious reasons or the law wouldn't be in place, would it?

[silentC]

I think the main reason is because you are connecting to utility services, like the water main and the sewer main. There are also sanitary issues - someone fiddling with sewerage who doesn't know what they're doing can cause serious health problems. And then there is gas.

But as I've said, I think safety has relatively little to do with the situation concerning electrical work and I think it is the same for plumbing.

I tried to find legislation covering people doing their own plumbing work in their own house but couldn't. I don't think it's as clear cut as it is for wiring. Could be it's legal in your own house, I'm not sure. That's why I haven't really gotten into that debate, hoping others would know.

[Gra]

I. There are also sanitary issues - someone fiddling with sewerage who doesn't know what they're doing

Can end up in deep s??t

[chrisp]

I'm still waiting for someone to argue the reasons for not being able to do your own plumbing because it could go horribly wrong and the house could, err....float away...or my tiles could get wet. I'm sure there must be far more serious reasons or the law wouldn't be in place, would it?

Oh, there are lots of reasons - slow leak behind the wall damaging the structure, mixing up sewage and storm water, etc.

I think all these reasons wear a little thin after awhile as a lot of us have seem leaks from work done by licenced plumbers. It's a bit like the don't touch electrical stuff or you'll risk killing yourself or people - sounds reasonable in theory but in reality the perceived risk seems to be way out of proportion to the actual risk.

I think most people here are the types who take pride in their work and will try and do a good job - especially on their own house. The trick is to ensure that the "system" is such that the appropriate information and training is available and accessible.

[silentC]

leaks from work done by licenced plumbers

When you build a house, the plumber is required to pressure test all the lines, so there shouldn't be any leaks. I don't know if that is true for extensions of existing work though. But like electrical, plumbing work is self-certified. Our council inspection of the plumbing consisted of whacking bungs in the sewer lines and filling them up with water. He came along and saw there was water in the top of the pipe penetrations and that was good enough. Didn't care about the water or gas.

The gas requires a compliance plate, which includes a license number. They're not supposed to let you connect bottled gas to a service that doesn't have a current compliance plate - I assume it's the same for town gas. You would need to have a licensed person inspect it and provide the compliance plate if you did your own. The guy who installed our regulator is the same guy who delivers the gas. We still don't have a compliance plate!

[zeroseven]

Gas, I can totally understand. I wouldn't think anyone in any country is legally allowed to have a fiddle with gas.

But if I want to take out my old kitchen sink and put in a new one there is nothing that can go wrong, it doesn't matter that I'm connecting to a utility service or that the sky today happens to be blue. I cannot mix up storm water, sewage water, soapy water or holy water.

However if I want to install a new toilet, in a brand new position, then this is totally different.

It seems that one rule covers all which in most life situations just doesn't work.

Electrical work - The one rule covers all applies as well. You have the extreme, how the UK used to be, where anyone could come along and rewire their entire house with nothing but some old cable and four brain cells. But I believe they've recently changed to allowing basic electrics, light switches/sockets. Then for more, presumably higher risk jobs, having you pay for an inspector to come in to certify your work.

I'm far from certain about the current laws, just happened to be searching the Collins DIY book, which is printed for the UK market, at the weekend in Dymocks and so has all of the new laws for electrical work in there.

[silentC]

It seems that one rule covers all which in most life situations just doesn't work.

What I'm saying is that I don't know what the rule is, I couldn't find it. All the regulations I have seen regarding plumbing concern what license is required to do plumbing work commercially. I can't go and install a new sink for you because I'm not licensed. As far as I know, I can't charge you to change a tap washer either, for the same reason.

I couldn't find anything that precludes you from doing things like that in your own house. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, I just couldn't find it.

If you have time, try looking through the legislation section of the NSW State Government web site. While you're there, you can have a look through the Electricity (Consumer Safety) Act.