Stolen Generation

[Rossluck]

That this is a fairly contentious issue, I accept. Today I heard on ABC radio news that a section of the public protested when school children here in Queensland were taught something of the history of the "stolen generation" episode. (For overseas members: this was a period in our history when Aboriginal children were taken from their parents in the weird expectation that they would, well, become whitefellas, while their doomed black parents faded into the evolutionary past)

This illustrates very accurately the way national histories are "constructed" to present an ideal context for the present. I found it annoying that there are people who think that this episode should be hidden from our children. No wonder the indigenous people in this country are at such a low ebb.

From my point of view: we did it, we own it.

[ozwinner]

Here is a cartoon that appeared in the Melbourne Age last Saturday.
I kept it because it is so apt.

Al

[Black Ned]

About 10 years ago we visited the Apsley Gorge (Falls) near Walcha NSW. There was a huge information board erected telling of a massacre of aboriginals being herded over the cliffs. No such board exists today. No reference or information about this event is on websites. Brochures on the town do not mention any of this.
Seems like it might be embarrassment.

[bitingmidge]

[B]This illustrates very accurately the way national histories are "constructed" to present an ideal context for the present. I found it annoying that there are people who think that this episode should be hidden from our children.

And did we learn anything about the aboriginal history, or for that matter anything of Asia, or heaven forbid Germany in good old British Empirical post-war Oz?

Do the seppoes learn anything of anyone?

History is there to be discovered by those who are interested, the teaching of it has always been a mere vehicle for propoganda. A bit like reading a newspaper really....

From my point of view: we did it, we own it.

As long as we own all the other injustices you did and continue to do, then go for it.

I for one had nothing to do with it. I don't deny it happened. I question whether the motivation was exactly as you state or whether there wasn't at least a sniff of something more noble behind it all, however ill conceived it certainly was.

It doesn't mean that I'm not sympathetic, saddened or any other emotion you can count, but I'm saddened by the maltreatment of lots of other people as well, and I didn't do them either!

Cheers,

P

[dazzler]

Hi Ross

Bit more info would be helpful.
Was it factual, was it unbiased, was it a guilt trip.

Were all sides of the story going to be presented

Got to remember these are impressionable kids were talking about who believe most of what adults tell them, as well intentioned as it may be.

[Gra]

Being devils advocate here....

Would the children have been taken if they were white kids...

From the stories I have heard mostly yes. If a white women was unmarried and living in "povety" (How that povety was caused is another argument) then the child would be likely to be taken.

Now it was enforced more rigorously with the aboriginal people, but it also happened to white children as well, in the same manner.

I tend to lean towards the fact that yes there were injustices done, but there were injustices done to all people in the name of the law, my mother waws almost taken by "welfare" a couple of times while my gandfather was working at the sawmills in the same era. Now he was employed, sober and they had a house. (Yes they were allowed to own a house, though they couldnt afford to, they were renting)

sorry lost my train of thought, but you get my drift.

[Jedo_03]

who's to say there isn't another stolen generation in the making with the fallout from the recently commenced investigations into the abuse of aboriginal children...
Abusing kids is wrong...
What's going to happen to those kids who test "positive"...
God forbid they'll be separated from their communities and families (or that their communities and families will be separated from them...)
That would be so wrong...
Which begs the question...
Do two wrongs make a right...
Jedo

[Sturdee]

This illustrates very accurately the way national histories are "constructed" to present an ideal context for the present.

Nothing new in that, from the earliest recollection of mankind national histories are written and then rewritten from a biased viewpoint.

Also racial genocide has existed since early times, tribes conquered other tribes and then killed the males and took the women as wives and with time the previous tribes disappeared.This is still going on in many parts of the world.

As to the wrongs done to the aboriginal people following the English settlement I'm sure there are many, but to paraphrase the words of Gough Whitlam " It's time to move on "and worry about rectifying the conditions they live in now.

As to the continuing saga of telling us to say sorry, they should demand it of the British Government and not the Australian people for most Aussies weren't there when the atrocities happened.

Peter.

[johnc]

I feel it is very important to acknowledge both the wrongs and the rights of the past, to ensure we do not repeat the worst but improve on the better. The local tribe where I live was rounded into the fork of a river and massacred, the few survivors apparently received shelter at a mission only to have flour laced with arsenic and blankets with smallpox delivered which served to wipe out the remainder.

Should we say sorry? I see little reason to get bogged down on that point, rather we should acknowledge the cruelties of the past and get on with finding some way of improving the present. I for one feel sorrow for those events and the evils perpetrated, and believe they should be taught in our history along with the ANZAC spirit and the more recent immigrant history that shows the structure of our society and the fact we have managed to live without major civil wars, famine and political and economic disaster. Other than those economic shifts brought on us by world events such as the great depression.

The PM refusing to offer an apology for the sins of the countries past is on shaky ground. It has been done in other parts of the world as a way to commence a reconciliation with the original inhabitants for the errors of the past.

John

[pawnhead]

We're not "constructing" history. As bitingmidge stated "History is there to be discovered by those who are interested, the teaching of it has always been a mere vehicle for propoganda".
If having 8 year old schoolkids sing reconciliation "Sorry" songs isn't propaganda then I don't know what is. What have they got to be sorry for?

"It's time" to stop sulking about the past and focus on the problems of today. Whether the stolen generation forms part of a schools curiculum is entirely up to the school concerned, and people are allowed to protest against whatever they want. If there's enough of them then they may get there way, but there's no cover up going on here.

If we were talking about re-writing history and brainwashing kids with false information it would be a different matter.

About 10 years ago we visited the Apsley Gorge (Falls) near Walcha NSW. There was a huge information board erected telling of a massacre of aboriginals being herded over the cliffs. No such board exists today. No reference or information about this event is on websites. Brochures on the town do not mention any of this.
Seems like it might be embarrassment.

There are a few vague references on the web about this massacre.
Who put the sign up and who took it down?
What is the history of this massacre, where's the evidence of a cover up, and why would you put it in town brochures even if it was well documented?
I'm not denying past atrocities against the Aboriginal people, and I'd have no interest in covering them up, because I've got nothing to be sorry for. And neither has our present Government.

[Sebastiaan56]

For those interested check out the podcast from the Adelaide Festival of Ideas titled "Indigenous Futures" Here is the url http://www.abc.net.au/rn/latenightlive/ I believe that we need to listen more than talk when it comes to indigineous issues.

Years ago I did a weekend workshop with an elder from Fitzroy Crossing in Northern NSW. This man was intense, proud and very very smart. At one stage some local people came to formally welcome him to their land. They were rude, drunken and in two cases on bail. Their entreaty to us whities was to help this man get his land back, rudely, belligerantly. He had moved on, they hadnt. At that time I had just employed a vietnamese man whose wife had worked three jobs to raise the bribes necessary to get him out of jail in Vietman for protesting the war. He was physically broken but still one of the most kind and gentle men I have ever met. He was just happy to be alive.

We all have stuff to get over black, white, brindle. Only we can get over it. It can only happen at our own pace. An apology is a powerful healing statement and costs nothing.

Sebastiaan

[Zed]

at the risk of being controversial :

it happened. get over it. Move on, stop being part of the victim mentality and get with the program re the solution!!!!

U dont see people like Peris Kneebone, Mundine, Namitajira, Gooloagong and Mal Meninga bitching about how rooted it was, nor did it stop them from achiveing high results in thier fields. But of course its fair easier to bitch and moan how crap it was, ask for a perpetual handout, have a little drinkie poo til you cant move and complain about the evil white person... (Note i say person to not appear sexist)...

We run the risk of turning this great brown land into a place that has institutionalised refugee probs (look at palestine for instance) if this keeps up. STEP UP AND ACHIEVE!!!

I was taught that modern day humans (Including indigenious Aussies) are genetically SIMILAR to those humans who lived 40,000 yrs ago... In fact David Rabbitborough said if you took a baby from them and transplanted it here it would assimilate just like us, however it may not be as tall or as pretty as me. So saying indiginious Aussies "cant get used to the modern world" it stands to reason, is, in fact, inaccurate. Again I say STAND UP AND ACHIEVE!!!

Im not sorry, but im sorry it happened - at least it was SUPPOSED to be done to HELP (I think)!!!!!! That the fullness of time has shown that it didnt, in many cases is, irrelevant, unfortunately. Many things were done in the past and will be done again that are supposed to be benevolent but probably in the fullness of time arent/ weren't / wont be.

I AM sorry that my taxes support a rooted support system!!!

if u dont agree with me fair enough, but then, so what ?

[Iain]

When I was at Uni we had an Aboriginal sociologist who told us that indigenous Australians did not like drinking but it was forced upon them by white men.
I argued that in the mid 60's when I was in WA we had what was called the blackfellas act (I cannot quote the act but it was known to all as this) which strictly prohited the sale and consumption of alcohol by Aboriginals.
I received a counselling session from the head honcho.

[dazzler]

Zed for PM

[HappyHammer]

Being devils advocate here....

Would the children have been taken if they were white kids...

From the stories I have heard mostly yes. If a white women was unmarried and living in "povety" (How that povety was caused is another argument) then the child would be likely to be taken.

Now it was enforced more rigorously with the aboriginal people, but it also happened to white children as well, in the same manner.

I tend to lean towards the fact that yes there were injustices done, but there were injustices done to all people in the name of the law, my mother waws almost taken by "welfare" a couple of times while my gandfather was working at the sawmills in the same era. Now he was employed, sober and they had a house. (Yes they were allowed to own a house, though they couldnt afford to, they were renting)

sorry lost my train of thought, but you get my drift.

I think you'll find the removals were justified by a change in the law that enabled authorities to remove children, I don't believe the legislation applied to whites.

As to the continuing saga of telling us to say sorry, they should demand it of the British Government and not the Australian people for most Aussies weren't there when the atrocities happened.

Not sure there are any poms left who were either

HH.