What finish on 1940's dining table???

[ptrott]

I have an English Oak & leather dining suite & sideboard which I estimate to be
circa.1940's. The finish on the sideboard is pretty much perfect but the table top is
looking dull & feels a bit 'textured'.
I have previously used non silicon wax on it and it looks OK for a short time, but really
could do with a real lift.
Problem is I don't know what the finish is.
I thought shellac, but when I rub the underside with a metho wet rag it doesn't seem to effect the surface. Wouldn't metho melt shellac?
If it is shellac I thought I could perhaps give it a top-up without detracting from its age value.
If it isn't shellac what might it be? It is fairly glossy but not glassy like a polly finish.
It does water-mark, but that could just be the wax coat.
Any suggestions? Would a pic help?

Phill.

[Just George]

It does water-mark, but that could just be the wax coat.
Any suggestions? Would a pic help?

Phill.

I have furniture made in the early 50's that marks a similar way to the way you are describing your table.

A picture of this could/would be good.

[munruben]

Some of the tables back in the 1950s were French polished but guess this is same as being a shellac finish and one would expect it to react to a wiping over with meths.

[ptrott]

I have tried to get decent pics but the sheen is making it difficult.

[durwood]

If this suite was made in the 40's it's possible it has been refinished once or possibly more times since.

If the finish appears to be old and well worn and not tampered with in the last 10 -20 years. it could be one of 3 generally found products.

I. Shellac ( you state metho doesn't affect it, if it is shellac it will soften unless there is a good coat of wax in the way. Try metho again in a place where someone wouldn't normally wax ( underneath behind a chair leg etc) if no go then you can probably rule it out, but one more test- rub it with a piece of fine dry abrasive paper ( again in a place not important) smell the dust, if you can detect a smell it should give you an idea as to what it is. To conferm what it is rub something you know is shellac and compare it.

2. it could be nitrocellulose lacquer if it is it may soften slightly with metho but definately will with lacquer thinner ( you could wash off the whole surface to bare timber if it is. Being old it may take a bit of time to soften as it will be rock hard. Soak a piece of rag and again place on an unimportant area. Also is there any signs the finish may have been sprayed on, it might show signs under the tabel as most finishers would spray the top side and edges and let the underside get any overspray as they would see no need to mask of those areas. N/C would only be sprayed on.

3. It may be a clear enamel, if you hit it with lacquer thinner it will act like stripper and the clear will breakdown and become a soft jelly like material.

Again it may need to be given a soak to get the result as you are looking at an old hard finish.

You can also use the dry rub test for the N/C and enamel to help you get to a conclusion.

Don't know if that will produce a result for you as the pictures arn't going to be good enough to be able to tell.

Failing that if you want to get the table surface better you may just have to bite the bullet and strip it off and redo it with a finish like the rest of the suite.

[ptrott]

Thanks Durwood (and others)
There are two separate coating on this. There is a dark stain that I am 99.9% sure has been sprayed because there is an over-spray line visible on the inside of the back of the sideboard (buffet) behind the bottom drawer. There is also some dead straight edge lines that must have been masked.
There is no sign of over-spray of the finishing coating anywhere, so I assume that it was not sprayed??
It has not been re-finished in the last 20 years as I have had it longer than that.
Could you elaborate on the Dry Rub Test?
I will try again tomorrow with you testing methods as there may well be wax on it.
I would not consider rubbing it back and re-finishing in light of what has been said on "The Collectors", and what other antique dealers have said, but if it proves to be a shellac finish, am I right in thinking that I can give it a light "top-up"?

[durwood]

There would only be one reason for the masking if there is any signs of it its been sprayed. If the finish was brushed it wouldn't need to be masked.
Sounds like the stain was a spirit one sprayed and the clear was probably brushed.

No overspray only means there was masking on all the non coated areas, overspray wouldn't be present on the finished surface.

The dry rub test.

Eash paint/whatever resin has a distinctive odour. if yoy rub the coating dry and smell the abrasive paper residue from the coating it should have a smell. An experienced person would probably know what it was. You may only be able to tell if
1. You can actually smell the odour.
2. you have a known surface to also rub and compare the original too.

For instance the enamel finish would smell like enamel paint you have on things around the house. Though there are some variations even in brands ( you can tell some brands from others) try to look for a surface from again a paint from the same period as your table.

If it is shellac you could french polish it ( rub it with a pad and redissolve the coating) and add extra shellac if needed but the shellac would have to be free from any dirt/grime /wax or you would be rubbing them into the shellac and the end result may be terrible.

[ubeaut]

First best thing to do is buy a bottle of Polish Reviver and give it a go with that. It should remove water marks, white heat marks, old built up layers of wax, smoke, dirt etc and leave you with the original finish. If it doesn't work then nothing will and you will need to refurbish the piece.

Most likely it was spray stained then either french polished or varnished with an oil varnish. The absence of over spray other than the stain would seem to indicate the finish is not nitro.

The polish reviver will work well on all three finishes and could save you a whole heap of work. If not you will have to strip the surface before finishing even if it's french polished, as you have no idea what else has been put on it over the last 60 odd years. You might be able to bring it up with some shellac etc but the likelihood of it staying nice without crazing, cracking or wrinkling is pretty slim, as the top coat will more than likely have an adverse reaction with what's below. May not be instant but I would reckon within a year it would be very noticeable.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers - Neil

[ptrott]

Thanks Neil, & Durwood.
The tests Durwood suggested tell me it is in fact french polished. It is very well worn on the centre table top, but the two end-extensions are pretty good. I recon that the reviver has to be my first option so will try that.
Is there any distributors in Bunbury W.A. Neil? (PC 6236)

[ubeaut]

Try Timbecon or Carba-Tec in Perth for mail order