central heating / insulation

[jackiew]

I'm bringing my 1920s all electric weatherboard into the 21st century. The previous owners obviously didn't feel the cold as their is bugger all insulation, gaps everywhere and a single electric heater in the 8m x 4m x 3.25 m high lounge and thats it for the entire house.

Coming from the uk I'm used to hydronic heating but the quotes for it are double that for ducted. The difference would pay for a lot of extra insulation and probably the next 10 years worth of gas.

Question 1. One fitter suggested putting the ducted heating unit under the house ( there is a lot of room under there ) and one fitter suggested putting it outside. It seems to me that fitting it under ones wooden floorboards might be a tad noisy ( like a drum ) but on the other hand having it outside might annoy the neighbours ( although as their airconditioner annoys the hell out of me its very tempting ). Does anyone have any opinions on the best location for the unit?

Question 2. Has anyone installed either the concertina foil insulation or the board with foil either side under their floors and did it make a difference to warmth / cooling. They have both on display at the Timber Advisory place in Melbourne. I can't say I'm looking forward to spending a day or so on my back among the spiders fitting the stuff but it will be worth it if the temperature in my bedroom gets over danger of hypothermia this winter.

[Gumby]

Go withn the vast majority.....outside. Dont worry about the neighbours, I reckon 90% of homes have them out there and you can't here it from inside, particularly the modern units. They are then much easier to get at if there's a problem. I don';t fancy the idea of lots of gas flames roaring away under my house either !

[Gumby]

omg ! here = hear....sorry

[Sturdee]

When I got gas ducted heating installed I did not want it under the house and have ducting running through my workshop which is built under the house.

So I got it installed in the roof space with the ducting laying there as well with ceiling vents instead of floor vents.

Works well and leaves the useable storage/ workshop space intact.


Peter.

[Gumby]

Orange painted ducts ?

[Sturdee]

No, orange paint is too valuable to use outside the workshop.

Peter.

[MrFixIt]

Originally posted by jackiew
One fitter suggested putting the ducted heating unit under the house ( there is a lot of room under there ) and one fitter suggested putting it outside.

Hi

Never used ducted heating. However my thoughts would be to place the unit outside and run the ducts under the floor and have the outlets actually in the floor. This would of course allow the natural air flow to function effectively (ie hot air rises).

I would consider posing this question on a US based forum too, as they are all too familiar with this kind of heating in the colder states.

Regards

Peter

[Barry_White]

Just a point ducted heating works more efficiently from the floor whereas ducted cooling works more efficiently from the ceiling.

I would go with the mob and put the gas unit outside.

As far as insulating under the floor it depends on a couple of things.

If you have carpet on the floors it would not make any significant difference. On the other hand if you have bare floor boards and the wind can blow under the house it can make a difference.

With heating the most important place to put insulation is in the ceiling and the next most important place is in the wall. Wall insulation can be put in by Bradford Insulation using granulated rockwool which can be pumped into the cavity of the walls.

The windows come next and the best way to insulate them is with heavy drapes that actually touch the floor. This stops the glass chilling the air and causing the cold air to drop from the glass and actually cause cold draughts without the windows being open.

Fit foam tape around the jambs of all external doors and and fit draught excluders to the bottoms of the external doors.

Doing all these things will make a huge difference even without the heating.

How do I know. Well amongst my many careers I used to install heating, air conditioning and insulation.

Just as an aside there is plenty of expertise in OZ with out asking the yanks.

[soundman]

Been in a few cielings, I recon the foil fold up bats are not good. the r value isn't great & the firts time a contractor gets in your roof he has no choice they are buggered.

Polyester or poly/wool I recon has to be the best choice now though dearer then fibreglass or rock wool.

Ive just used some & I much more interested in doing my own cieling now. I hate being itchy.

Also why dont you reverse cycle aircon. has to come out cheaper in the long run???
Also much less fire risk.

[Greg Hudson]

Having recently purchased a property with no insulation, (and having just installed it myself) I can wholeheartedly agree with Soundman that Polyester Batts (R3.5) are the best. Easy to lay, and no glass fibres embedded in your skin. It was a crappy job, but has made a HUGE difference to the inside temp.

We also installed reverse cycle aircom (Heating & Cooling) which (I'm told) is THE most efficient form of heating. Supposedly, 3 times more efficient than a bar radiator of the same wattage.

Our property also has a large under floor cavity - open to the weather, and being in a sub alpine area, it gets mighty cold here, so we will be installing underfloor polystyrene - something you might want to consider.

We also installed Polyester Batts in the exterior walls (easy because we were replastering anyway).

In our Melbourne property, we have Gas Ducrted heating in the ceiling (because the building is on a concrete slab) and it is NOT very good. As someone else mentioned, heat rises... and with the ducts in the ceiling, that's where it stays!!! With the thermostat set at 23 deg I am still stitting in the Loungeroom with a blanket. Damned ridiculous !

If you decide on gas, then put your heater outside, and run the ducts under the house - you'll be much happier (and safer) that way.

My 2c worth...

Regards, Greg.

[seriph1]

we just paid $6700 for in-ceiling ducted heating in our VIC weatherboard - if it had fit under the floor, the price would have been around $4200

ppl rarely insulate under homes here, though it cant hurt - maybe wait til your ducted heating is in to see if you still need to though.


If youre in Melb. please let us know what area and what else you have planned for it.

cheers

[MrFixIt]

Originally posted by Greg Hudson
We also installed reverse cycle aircom (Heating & Cooling) which (I'm told) is THE most efficient form of heating. Supposedly, 3 times more efficient than a bar radiator of the same wattage.

It is important to note though (for those not aware) that the "efficiency" is in the "coverage" NOT the amount of heat. In other words the air blows around the area, whereas the bar heater is relatively concentrated around the heater itself.

You can only get so much heat out of 1kw of electricity )

Regards

Peter

BTW In heat value the most efficient heating is gas. More heat can be created by 1 unit of gas than the same unit of electricty

[Gumby]

Originally posted by Greg Hudson


In our Melbourne property, we have Gas Ducrted heating in the ceiling (because the building is on a concrete slab) and it is NOT very good. As someone else mentioned, heat rises... and with the ducts in the ceiling, that's where it stays!!!

WhaT about installing a ceiling fan ? If you get one with a reverse switch and set it on low speed, it circulates the warm air around the room. They are almost essential if you have a Coonara type wood heater. Without one, you could cook a steak up near the ceiling and freeze a beer on the floor! Once we put one in here, it made all the difference.

[zathras]

Yup ceiling fan's are good.

The return air for our ceiling ducted heating is also in the ceiling. That room never got warm as the warm air was sucked out as soon as it was put in. :mad:

A ceiling fan fixed the problem and now that room is the warmest room!

[seriph1]

pretty bizarre having the return air in the ceiling!

Agree that fans help heaps

BTW - Hi neighbour!

Kilmore here - kettle's on any time you wanna talk timber

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