Angle Grinders and Gloves

[journeyman Mick]

What is the reason you want to use gloves? If it's to protect your hands from any sparks, change the angle so the sparks go away from you.................

Not always possible, or more accurately, rarely possible. If you're using a 9" grinder with a cutting disc to cut a piece of plate the only way to hold it so that it doesn't kick back will have a stream of hot sparks showering your right hand. Also when using a wire buff, there's no knowing in which direction it will spit out bits of wire.

Mick

[Grahame Collins]

Honestly I believe that gloves are a greater hazard than the sparks,which can be controlled in other ways.

Consider the following, as the ripping of a fart up, of those who routinely ignore all common sense and safety procedures re grinders of any sort.

Talk to anyone who has worked in the accident / emergency ward of any hospital. Angle grinders are the number 1 in the stats tool for accidents to the pros and Diys alike.

Anybody that uses one without the guard or the handle is a fool. Two hands is the correct procedure

The bigger they are the more torque they produce. What sometimes happens is that the tool, used as a cutter, jams, then moves in an unexpected manner and a loss of control is experienced.

Building workers have cut their femoral arteries and bled to death after misusing a 9" grinder to cut reo bars.

Some of the better, newer models have a soft start built in.The feature helps with the unexpected torque hazard.

Guards are adjustable to catch the sparks and handles are able to be changed from left to right hand mountings.

And thats just the loss of control accidents. Other injuries are caused by fitting incorrectly fitting wheels to grinders.

Thats another post in itself.

go here to read what wiki pedia say on it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_grinder



Grahame

[soundman]

The reasons for using gloves with a grinder vary.

In the matal trades the main risk is handling sharp and/or hot material whilst handling the work to be ground.

The secondary risk, still a good one is Flying Hot Waste (sparks & bigger) the problem in many situations is that FHW can easily be deflected of nearby objects and features of the work and can easily come bach on you.

The exploding grinding disk is always a good one too. This is a real risk and does happen. Pieces go everywhere.
This happened to me once on a 9", it was unpleasant but I was lucky.(some luck but more PPE)
Ever since I have refused to work with any cheap grinder consumables.

Many of those who don't wear various PPE with grinders will tell you they know where the stream of FHW is going & is under their control.
UNTIL they learn to dance like MJ or worse they end up with hot metal in their eye.
The funniest one is to see a big gruff "boily" cop a good hot spark fair up the nostril.

In the 70's & 80's removal of metal from the eye was something lots of doctors got very good at as they had plenty of practise.
Since the 80's the WHS thing has ramped up..... fortunately.

other reasons to wear gloves with a grinder.

Minimise the effects of vibration.

Protect the hands against knocks & being jammed against work or other objects WHEN the grinder kicks back.

Keeping the hands clean, dusts from metal and stone can get very agressivly stuck to and in the skin particulary in the presence of sweat.
This material can be very hard to remove from the hands. This grit can also find its way into the eyes from the hands.

And thats without considering the special risks of wire brushes, diamond blades, saw blades, rotary carvers and other stuff that gets attached to grinders.

cheers

[Bleedin Thumb]

I always tackle using my 9" grinder like I use my large circular saw.

I am always in control.

I have tension in my forearms, comfortable stance with my legs wide apart and if ...or more accurately when the blade jams I can take up the force and either butch through it or ease off without kickback.

I strapping big Maori chippy that worked for me years ago taught me that lesson...you are always in control of the tool, not the other way around.

As far as torque goes well yes they twist when you switch them on. Another reason to hold them firmly. If you dont have upper body strength greater than the torque? of the machine then you should think about down sizing the machine.

Gloves are no impediment to holding these types of hand tools and can prevent injuries. Getting gloves caught in these types of tools is a crock, if you are holding your grinder firmly this wouldn't happen. Sparks and broken wheels do happen.

I suspect the injuries from grinders are to people who haven't had the experience or training on how to use them or they have put the grinder down as the wheel is still spinning either way i doubt that they are related to glove wearing.

[toddles]

Talk to anyone who has worked in the accident / emergency ward of any hospital. Angle grinders are the number 1 in the stats tool for accidents to the pros and Diys alike.

Sorry Grahame - that's not true. "Hand Tools" - including screwdrivers, utility knives, hammers, etc. are the most common cause of tool injuries in emergency ward admissions. There are almostd double the emergency admissions for "Hand Tool" accidents than Saws - half which are table or bench saw injuries. Saw injuries are four times more prevalent than the next two categories "Drills and Power Drills" and "Welders, Soldering irons and Cutting Torches". These are followed closely by "Grinders, Polishers and Buffers" , "Hoists, Lifts and Jacks" (responsible for the most deaths) and "Nail Guns" all with about the same admission levels.

Anybody that uses one without the guard or the handle is a fool.

That's a little unkind and otherwise just plain untrue. I have worked professionally as a concrete repairer and my work often consisted of using medium to large grinders all day, often high off the ground, finishing tilt-up panels. Using guards often meant using the grinder at unsafe angles and we frequently removed them for certain jobs. There sole purpose is to redirect or deflect some debri. We would NEVER use the handles on the grinders smaller than 9.25". The correct technique was to have your thumb on the switch and your hand wrapped around the motor chassis and your second hand supporting the tail. Use of the handle makes it unsafely difficult to quickly switch off the grinder when neccessary. The company is very careful about OHS and correct technique and would scoff at being called fools by yourself. We ALWAYS used well fitting leather or synthetic equivalent gloves - all of which show the scars that would have covered our hands without them. No one would think of working with bare hand let alone without proper gloves - there is nothing dangerous about using them. Safety glasses and dust respirators were also required equiptment.

[soundman]

Aparantly the incidence of grinder injuries is on the rise...... or so a spokesman from one of the hospitals says on the news a while ago....... lots of untrained weeked warriors getting hold of cheap power tools.

there are always good reasons for removing guards from all sorts of machines.
Unfortunately I have seen a lot of grinders that have had the guard removed and it has not been replaced and is and has been used without a guard as a matter of course.

There is a real risk of hands comming into contact with the back of the blade if the guard is removed..... particularly with small grinders when used two handed without a side handle.

There are specific applications that require specific techniques.... but most of the time the safest way to use a grinder is two handed with a side handle and the guard fitted.

there is some sort of idea out there that it is an important safety consideration to be able to turn off a grinder quickly....... sorry with small grinders and particulary for most applications........... you have to be kidding.

If you have to turn the grinder off quickly it is obvious that a risky operation is being undertaken........further........ nobodies reflexes are fast enough......at the speed that these things run, by the time you got the switch off...... its all happend.

I note that on larger grinders, almost without exception they have dead man switches....... this is not so you can turn the grinder off quickly......... it is specificaly so that WHEN the machine is ripped from the operators grasp (a real and present risk) it does not continue to remain powerd on thrashing, screaming and grinding what IT wants to.


Workplace health and safety people hate grinders......... why...... because there are lots of people in the trades that use grinders to do all sorts of things where there are much better and safer things to use.

example
I went on site with a bloke to install a projector and some other AV stuff.
Along with the usualy tecko hand tools he braught a 4" angle grinder..... specificaly with the intent of trimming the thin walled pipe on the projector mount.( btw it had no guard). In addition he braught no ear or eye protection.
This was a simple job for a hacksaw or a pipe cutter...... why use a grinder.
The grinder presented a raft of risks to all on the site and to property.
Either the hacksaw or the pipe cutter presented none of those risks.


As a side issue, I have deemed that there will be no hot work done by me or anybody working with me on any customers premises.
this means.
no grinding
no abrasive cutting
no welding
no tools that produce a flame or sparks
and no smoking.
If more people checked with their insurance companies they would do likewise.
It is almost imposible to get insurance for any form of on site hot work.
If it has to be ground or welded it needs to be done in the workshop.

just some thaughts.

cheers

[toddles]

Just read my last post and I should apologise as it reads more abrasively than I would like.

I should also add that ear protection was compulsory too.

[DanP]

Anyone who uses an angle grinder without guards is someone who's never seen a blade explode. I have had a 9" blade bite and explode and the only thing that saved my nuts was the guard. Out front, a piece of the blade went straight through a 1" thick timber packing crate.

As to gloves, I wore riggers gloves whenever I picked up a grinder of any size. They saved me from cuts more times than I care to remember. Only once did a grinder get through it and that was when the foreman swapped my guarded grinder for an unguarded one that I refused to use. He did it while I was welding and I didn't even look as I picked it up. He thought it would be funny to trick me into using it...

Dan

PS He didn't think it too funny when the still running, blood covered grinder was thrown at him from across the factory.

[Pulse]

a few anecdotes:

1. A 4 inch grinder with the guard removed to allow fitting of a 9 inch blade. This exploded and one sector embedded into the poor blokes face. His glasses were crumpled into his eye and could not be removed. Chopper to big sydney hospital fast......

2. Using a circular saw with guard retracted to cut a tree root down a hole, finished cutting and placed it on his knee.....


moral of the story is use the guard.

If people are quoting what is the commonest cause of injury they should be quoting sources.

Cheers
Pulse

[2shane]

I dunno I think the issue is circumstantial....

If it's bloody cold and I want my hand warm and I feel comfortable about the amount of grip I am getting on an angle grinder.. fine...

I also might note that it could be said that if one was HOT and Sweaty (Ohh a hot and sweaty Man.. oooo) then a case could be put forward for wearing gloves while using an angle grinder...

I figure that if your brain is switching off enough to not retain a grip on an angle grinder, you should be having a lay down.

Aside from dropping a big grinder onto concrete while it's running and one has the trigger lock engaged, I can't see how you could actually get anything caught up in the disk....

It's guarded, it's a long way from ones fingers.... etc.

But the issues of BIG PEDASTLE grinders....

Hmmmmmmmmm a few good union occ health and safety girls have said...

"Wearing gloves (gauntlet welding gloves) when using a pedastle grinder, IS a BAD idea., cause the odd person on the odd occasion, have caused the glove finger tips to go into the gap between the rest and the wheel and it's taken the whole lot into the unit, and it's torn fingers off, including lengths of tendon etc., out of the arm....."

Sooooo I prefer OPEN wheels (no tool rest - but with a GUARD) on small bench grinders... 150mm - 200mm etc.. and I don't normally wear gloves when using a bench grinder...

The small Bench Grinders, the wheels are too small to carry enough inertia to drag thick gloves in and rip fingers off etc.

But the BIG pedastle grinders, with the 50mm wide x 400+ mm OD wheels, I think I'd rather not wear gloves....

It's the BIG wheeled pedastle grinders the union occ health and safety girls go nutso about people wearing welding gloves, when they are grinding on them...

Angle grinders.. not an issue.

[2shane]

As to gloves, I wore riggers gloves whenever I picked up a grinder of any size. They saved me from cuts more times than I care to remember. Only once did a grinder get through it and that was when the foreman swapped my guarded grinder for an unguarded one that I refused to use. He did it while I was welding and I didn't even look as I picked it up. He thought it would be funny to trick me into using it...

Dan

PS He didn't think it too funny when the still running, blood covered grinder was thrown at him from across the factory.[/quote]



I would have grabbed said foreman, I would have held him to the ground and I would have smashed his face into a pulp with it.....

That or I would have used the grinder to cut his head off...

"Here ya go sport.... laugh at this."

Then I would have gone after every one in the place who either thought it was funny or knew about it and did not speak up about it or do anything to stop the said fool.


Naaaa just kidding... I would have smashed his face in tho..., just to let him know I that I can take a joke just like he can.

[2shane]

The quote:

"That's a little unkind and otherwise just plain untrue. I have worked professionally as a concrete repairer and my work often consisted of using medium to large grinders all day, often high off the ground, finishing tilt-up panels. Using guards often meant using the grinder at unsafe angles and we frequently removed them for certain jobs. There sole purpose is to redirect or deflect some debri. "


Yeah... NO Guards on an angle grinder.. like a 9 1/2" grinder....

The guards..... are not to redirect the debri, or to deflect it..

It's not there for sparks...

The number ONE and ONLY reason why angle grinders have guards, is to stop an exploding wheel from killing you..

The fact it also stops you from being showered in sparks, is simply a bonus.


How you die.

When a wheel going flat out, explodes... well it's like this...

A 9" disk or 23cm OD wheel has a surface speed of 260Kmh - on the outside of the wheel... in the center, it is 0Kmh - and it varies from the inside to the outside.....

So we will just stick to the simple dumb stuff.


9" x 2.54 = ~23cm OD, x 3.142 = 72cm circumference (or 0.72m) x 6000 rpm = 4320 meters a minute. / 60 =. 72 meters a second (at the circumference)...or get 4320m/m x 60 = 259,200m/h / 1000 = 260 Kmh on the outside edge.

Say the disk explodes..... I am not sure what the disks weigh... but deducting all the more complex issues of angular velocity at the outside and inside of the disk, chunk sizes.. inertia, disk density, surface area etc......

In simple terms, when a 9" angle grinder disk explodes... it's a chunk of reinforced rock coming at you, edge on - doing around 260Kmh....

The guard is NOT meant for decoration, or to stop those iccy little sparks...

The guard is designed to containing the chunks of exploding disk heading in your direction, to stop them from punching holes through you, your veins and arteries (jugular etc), your soft internal organs etc.. at 260 Kmh.

Here is some fun medical / occ health and safety / statistics based upon real records.

What is the main hazard, they point out, is USING cutting disks in an angle grinder..... cause they can jam and twist and shatter in use....

(Cutting disks are meant to ONLY be used in fixed and rigid cutting machines, that swing their disk perpendicular to the material being cut, and are so designed that the disk cannot "dig in", OR propery designed cutting machines with VERY heavy full [double sided] guards )

And there are plenty of STUPID people who not only put cutting disks into ANGLE GRINDERS, they also use them without guards....

Here are the facts:


http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/page...cnwssm0170.htm

http://employment.alberta.ca/documents/WHS/WHS-PUB_al024.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract


Neato facial injury piccy... = Nasty.
http://www.itim.nsw.gov.au/index.cfm...F75420C4862818


http://www.switchbacktechnologies.com/safety.html

Safety
Stats on Angle Grinder Injuries Worldwide:

• Note: information listed has been compiled from different international web sites who supplies injury stats.

A). Australia:
Injuries in the workplace are a major source of ill health and disability in Queensland. During 1996-97 there were 36,449 compensated workplace injuries in Queensland. The direct and indirect cost of workplace injuries in the Australian community has been conservatively estimated as being between $15 billion and $37 billion per year.

• 85% of workplace injuries are to males
• Almost half of workplace injuries are to young people aged 15 to 29 years.
• 21% of workplace injuries are to the eye
• Almost one-third of workplace injuries are to the hand
• More than a quarter of workplace injuries involve tools of some sort
• Grinders contribute to more than 1 in 20 of workplace injuries

Major Injury Factor
An examination of the major injury factors for workplace injuries revealed more than a quarter involved the following tools and equipment: grinders (5%), knives (4%), welding equipment (4%), other power tools (4%), hand tools (3%), other tools (4%) and fixed plant and machinery (2%).
Eye Injuries
Foreign body on the external eye accounted for 71% of the eye injuries while 2% were burns. Grinders and welding equipment were each implicated in 14% of cases while chemical sprays or splashes caused 6% of the injuries.
Most angle grinders injuries involve metal particles lodging in the operator’s eye, however the most severe injuries result from kick-back or when discs shatter or explode. These latter types of injuries have resulted in death and dismemberment. Angle grinders are well known to OH&S organizations across Australia as being one of the most dangerous tools in the workplace (and in the home workshop). The main problem is that these tools are designed for grinding and not cutting; the activity when most serious grinder injuries occur.
USA
Stats from 2000 total of 5,915 fatal work injuries were recorded. Here are some examples of Angle Grinder Injuries
A 46 year old experienced tradesman was seriously injured, lost an arm whilst using a 239mm diameter Angle Grinder. The worker was using the Angle Grinder to cut a light gauge, fixed, metal, stud wall channel at a Karrakatta construction site when the accident occurred. The metal cutting disc fitted to the Angle Grinder caught in the channel being cut and a portion of the disc broke free. The resulting "kick back" violently twisted the Angle Grinder. The worker’s front hand jolted free and the spinning disc on the Angle Grinder careered up into his upper arm. A number of serious accidents involving the use of Angle Grinders have been reported to the department in recent years.
A worker was almost killed in similar circumstances cutting a metal stud wall channel, but for the fact that he was working at the Queen Elizabeth II Medical Center, and promptly received excellent medical treatment.


http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1322767

Titre du document / Document title

Angle grinder injuries : a cause of serious head and neck traumaAuteur(s) / Author(s)

WONGPRASARTSUK S. (1) ; LOVE R. L. (1) ; CLELAND H. J. (1) ; Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)

(1) Alfred Hospital, Prahran, VIC, AUSTRALIE
Résumé / Abstract

Over the past 12 months, the Victorian Trauma Centre at the Alfred Hospital, Melbourne, has dealt with serious head and neck injuries associated with angle grinder use. Three cases are presented, documenting the circumstances and severity of these injuries and subsequent management. Angle grinder injuries are a source of serious morbidity and mortality, much of which is preventable.Revue / Journal Title

Medical journal of Australia (Med. j. Aust.) ISSN 0025-729X CODEN MJAUAJ Source / Source

2000, vol. 172, no6, pp. 275-277 (14 ref.)Langue / Language

Anglais
Editeur / Publisher

Australasian Medical Publishing Company, Sydney, AUSTRALIE (1914) (Revue)



This is a fun game..

http://www.swsahs.nsw.gov.au/livtrau...sudden/45m.asp

[soundman]

I said they were dangerous things. I some of you thaught I was kiddidding abouth the bloke who almost cut his leg off.


Consider this
I used to use a wolf 9 1/4" angle grinder, it was rated at 2400 watts. Thats as big as you can have with a 10 amp plug. many are similar.

A human.... sorry no a olymic cyclist has a peak power output of 750watts...(for a few seconds)

your typical small lawn mower motor has a power output of 1875 to 2625 watts

a medium sized chainsaw ( sthill 029) has a power output of 2700watts

a decent small table saw has a power output of 2500 watts or better.

typicaly a table saw spins at about 5000 rpm a 9 1/4" grinder spins at 6600 rpm a 4" angle grinder spins at 11000 rpm.

Angle grinders are a safe & usefull tool........ when used with considerable care.

Unfortunately the vast majority of users have no idea of how much power these hand held tools have........the consequences of the power being unleashed in an uncrontrolled manner needs to be apprecieted.

cheers
grinders may not usualy have teeth......... but if you get bitten by one you may hope it did.

[toddles]

The quote:

"That's a little unkind and otherwise just plain untrue. I have worked professionally as a concrete repairer and my work often consisted of using medium to large grinders all day, often high off the ground, finishing tilt-up panels. Using guards often meant using the grinder at unsafe angles and we frequently removed them for certain jobs. There sole purpose is to redirect or deflect some debri. "


Yeah... NO Guards on an angle grinder.. like a 9 1/2" grinder....
....

How you die.

When a wheel going flat out, explodes... well it's like this...

A 9" disk or 23cm OD wheel has a surface speed of 260Kmh - on the outside of the wheel... in the center, it is 0Kmh - and it varies from the inside to the outside.....

I didn't say anything about using a 9 inch grinder without the guard - the boss always operated the large grinder (with a diamond wheel), always with the guard and handle and the grinder was the kind with a deadman's switch at the tail.
Neither did I say anything about using an abrasive cutting disk - we didn't use them - as you point out they can get lethal. We used stones of varying descriptions and rarely at anything close to full speed.
My point wasn't that you can put anything that fits, for instance a circular saw blade, in a grinder and use it safely. It was merely that there are a lot of bold generalizations being made on this thread by people who don't seem to have the experience to provide such a broad view. My experience is certainly limited to a very narrow range of grinder usage in a very specific role but I stand by every point on that post.

[Cliff Rogers]

I didn't say anything about using a 9 inch grinder without the guard - ....

No, you didn't but Dan did, the quote details got lost, it was Dan's quote, not yours.