Screws or nails for deck?

[hardwoodjoint]

We're laying Merbau decking over treated pine bearers. Should I use screws or nails?

[JackoH]

Screws. Nails will lift over time witt the flexing of the deck timber, and have to be regularly banged in again. Trust me I've been there!

[hardwoodjoint]

Thanx JackO, I thought that might be the case.

[strangerep]

We're laying Merbau decking over treated pine bearers.
Should I use screws or nails?

I've just done the exercise of re-tightening all 1200 screws on my deck.
It took several hours, but at least I could do it without damaging the
deck surface. (Amazing how the deck no longer creaks when I walk
on it. )

BTW, I used those 7g x 65mm s/s screws that Bunnings sells in large
quantities. So I now know that their heads are too small to hold the
decking boards securely over time as they expand, flex, etc, under
sun and rain. I.e: the heads tend to pull through the boards.
If I did it again, I'd use 10g even though the latter are more visible.
I might still do that (i.e: replace the 7g ones). Does anyone want some
2nd-hand 7g x 65mm s/s screws?

[johnc]

I've never had any trouble with the galv (twist) decking nails either lifting or moving, but have used hardwood underneath. But then if you don't like using a hammer these may not suit.

John.

[hardwoodjoint]

Thanx for the tip. Going to Bunnies tomorrow night to stock up

[rat52]

Definitely use 10g screws as anything smaller the timber can snap the heads off with expansion and contraction. Particularly around a pool or garden where wetting the drying of the timber occurs.

Buy the screws from a fixing supplier by the 1000. It's cheaper.

[UteMad]

Nails or Screw????

It depends a lot on whether you purchase and install the right ones for the job in the first place..........

I have done thousands and thousands of each both with there positives

If you don't hammer all the time spend the extra and screw the deck its a better job and you will be able to work for much longer periods as your odds of nailing 10kg of 65mm titadecks in a sitting will be slim and none where screwing them in is much higher

The right screws for fixing 19mm thick merbau to treated pine joists are
10g type 17 square drive countersunk stainless wood screws 50mm long not the imitation stainless chipboard jobs that are easily found at main stream hardwares and not trim heads ....
You will need to buy a decent countersink and pilot bit ...carbitool sell a great one that will not clog and do about 10 - 15000 screws cost $45
Don't believe that the type 17 will self drill and the head self countersink..
Yes it will do all these things most times but the boards will split if not today in a few months when the boards dry out
The best tool for fitting the screws is a corrdless impact driver as a tech screw gun doesn't have the torque and neither does a power drill , a cordless drill would prob pass for a while but it would want to be a good one.... It will depend on the amount of screws being fixed... We run up to 3 impact drivers with 2 - 3 batteries each when screwing the decks off and will fix approx 2000 screws in 1hr or so
Trim heads will pull through the board eventually if it wants to move bad enough
Chipboard or 8G will snap just below the countersunk head
Phillips head will reem there heads and annoy the hell out of you

Nails
The best nail for the job is a 65mm titadeck hit in with a hammer and done with a pilot hole in the board first......
50mm nails and gun nails are a hit and miss affair where you'll be lucky today and not tomorrow

Hope my ramble helps and saves you some time

cheers Utemad

www.dialadeck.com.au

[Gumby]

Nails
The best nail for the job is a 65mm titadeck hit in with a hammer and done with a pilot hole in the board first......
50mm nails and gun nails are a hit and miss affair where you'll be lucky today and not tomorrow

Hope my ramble helps and saves you some time

cheers Utemad

www.dialadeck.com.au

My deck was recently done buy a builder who used a coil nailer. This left some nails sitting with the dome head flush or slightly proud, and others where the nail has gone a couple of mm into the merbu, leaving a 2mm hole above them. Are these holes going to be an issue down the track? Should I go around and knock all the nails in and fill the holes ? (Painful job) Or do you think i can just leaver it as is. It's got about 4 coats of decking oil on it and will get one every 6 or 12 months. the deck is exposed (no roof)

[BrissyBrew]

Nails or Screw????
If you don't hammer all the time spend the extra and screw the deck its a better job and you will be able to work for much longer periods as your odds of nailing 10kg of 65mm titadecks in a sitting will be slim and none where screwing them in is much higher
www.dialadeck.com.au

I must admit I dont hammer all the time, but I am building only a single deck so a little extra time is not a concern. Its for a house I dont intend selling for the next 10 to 15 years. I may move out, but I am keeping the property, so long lasting is a concern.

Nails or Screw????
The right screws for fixing 19mm thick merbau to treated pine joists are
10g type 17 square drive countersunk stainless wood screws 50mm long not the imitation stainless chipboard jobs that are easily found at main stream hardwares and not trim heads ....
www.dialadeck.com.au

I am looking at fixing hardwood decking, such as 19mm thick merbau to hardward joists. Would you still recommend the same type of screw. I see it is square drive, do they look like the hexagonal allen key type setups? Any recommendations for a brand a pic so I can get an idea of what your talking about. I always hate asking in store and getting cornered by a some guy trying to sell me something else I did't want in the first place. I spotted this on ebay a counter sink and pre drill on one. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/DECKING-SMART...QQcmdZViewItem

Nails or Screw????
Yes it will do all these things most times but the boards will split if not today in a few months when the boards dry out.
www.dialadeck.com.au

Great advice, always good to learn from others mistakes.

Nails or Screw????
Trim heads will pull through the board eventually if it wants to move bad enough
Chipboard or 8G will snap just below the countersunk head
www.dialadeck.com.au

I did not quiet follow these comments.

Nails or Screw????
Nails
The best nail for the job is a 65mm titadeck hit in with a hammer and done with a pilot hole in the board first......
www.dialadeck.com.au

Are you talking hot dipped galvanised or stainless. Any other issues with stainless besides the additioanl cost. Should 65x3.15 Titadeck deformed shank nail should be used?

Nails or Screw????
Nails
50mm nails and gun nails are a hit and miss affair where you'll be lucky today and not tomorrow
www.dialadeck.com.au

A couple people have tried to sell me on getting a coil nailer and recon with the correct twisted decking nails it should cause no problems. I am interested on your thoughts on this one.

[journeyman Mick]

I've built more than a few decks in my time, mostly hardwood decking on hardwood joists, but a few with treated pine decking. For hardwood decking on hardwood joists it's pretty much standard to go with 50mm bullet head gal nails, with the ends of boards predrilled to prevent splitting. Never had a call back for any popped boards and it's been well over ten years for some of the decks. As the joists will still be pretty green they will shrink around the nails as they dry. If you want to remove these nails you'll generally need to lean on the end of a decent wrecking bar. I've done a few decks with 'dektites' a small metal bracket that does away with face nailing and spaces the bottom of the boards off the joists for airflow. A very good but time consuming method of fixing. I would be very suprised if you have any boards pop loose if you use hot dip gal nails into hardwood joists.

Mick

[strangerep]

I am looking at fixing hardwood decking, such as 19mm thick merbau to hardward joists. Would you still recommend the same type of screw. I see it is square drive, do they look like the hexagonal allen key type setups? Any recommendations for a brand a pic so I can get an idea of what your talking about.

The stainless screws that have been talked about are usually square-drive
(yes, like hex-drive but square). The square drive makes them less susceptible
to being stripped than (say) philips head. (This is less of an issue with gal
screws, which use normal stronger steel.)

Possibly the most important phrase to utter to a hardware salesperson is
"type-17". This refers to a special type of self-drilling tip. The screw can cut
a path for its own thread as you drive it. You still need to pre-drill if you're
going into hardwood joists, but the pilot hole can be a bit narrower: the screw
will cut a helical path for its thread as it goes in. This results in more secure
fastening, as well as (much) easier insertion.

If you're using stainless screws (recommended), you've got to watch out
for stripping the heads. A driver with a torque control is essential. You
might also need to withdraw the screw, clear the type-17 tip, and re-insert.
Even better, if you can find gal screws of the same gauge and thread pitch,
you can use one of these to cut the thread path, then withdraw it and
insert a stainless screw. That way, the tougher gal screw is doing the
hard work and if its head gradually strips, just chuck it out and use
another. This strategy only works if the thread pitch (turns per inch)
is exactly the same on both types of screw.

As for brands, I know that my local Mitre-10 stocks 10gx50mm sq-drive
stainless countersunk screws packed by "TopFix". But I'd go for 60mm
if you can find them, following the rule of thumb that the screw should
penetrate into the joist to at least twice the thickness of the board being
secured. For 20mm decking boards, that means 40mm in the joist,
i.e: a 60mm screw. But 50mm is probably ok if you can't get 60mm.
My local timber yard also stocks a different brand (and in larger-quantity
packs) - so you should probably check with your local timber
merchants as well as hardware stores.

[UteMad]

My deck was recently done buy a builder who used a coil nailer. This left some nails sitting with the dome head flush or slightly proud, and others where the nail has gone a couple of mm into the merbu, leaving a 2mm hole above them. Are these holes going to be an issue down the track? Should I go around and knock all the nails in and fill the holes ? (Painful job) Or do you think i can just leaver it as is. It's got about 4 coats of decking oil on it and will get one every 6 or 12 months. the deck is exposed (no roof)

Hi Gumby

Assuming the right nail was used in the coil gun in the first place it is done by plenty of contractors but not us... The manufacturer would say to use a stainless 50mm ring nail either dome or flat head for fixing hardwood to treated joists and a screw shank into hardwood joists.....
I have grilled the supllier over this point and they will not warrant there product against either split boards or popped nails for any period.....
I find that the depth even though the gun is adjustable isn't as accurate like you say cause some boards are more dense than others.... You will be more prone to popped nails than the 65mm titadecks hand nailed thats for sure but it doesn't mean it will happen for sure either....we maintain decks also and have one thatss 3 year old merbau 90mm fixed with coil gun and these haven't popped but the deck isn't highly trafficed ..... Don't punch them its a waste of time and the nails wont be able to hold the extra down force so all you will do is loosen there hold on the joist and incourage them to rise


cheers utemad

www.dialadeck.com.au

[UteMad]

I must admit I dont hammer all the time, but I am building only a single deck so a little extra time is not a concern. Its for a house I dont intend selling for the next 10 to 15 years. I may move out, but I am keeping the property, so long lasting is a concern.


I am looking at fixing hardwood decking, such as 19mm thick merbau to hardward joists. Would you still recommend the same type of screw. I see it is square drive, do they look like the hexagonal allen key type setups? Any recommendations for a brand a pic so I can get an idea of what your talking about. I always hate asking in store and getting cornered by a some guy trying to sell me something else I did't want in the first place. I spotted this on ebay a counter sink and pre drill on one. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/DECKING-SMART...QQcmdZViewItem



Great advice, always good to learn from others mistakes.


I did not quiet follow these comments.


Are you talking hot dipped galvanised or stainless. Any other issues with stainless besides the additioanl cost. Should 65x3.15 Titadeck deformed shank nail should be used?


A couple people have tried to sell me on getting a coil nailer and recon with the correct twisted decking nails it should cause no problems. I am interested on your thoughts on this one.

Hi Brissybrew

I'll try and answer all your questions but if i miss a few prompt me...
1* your better off with stainless screws
2* Bremick and Macsim both make good 50mm 10Gauge type 17 square drive countersunk stainless steel screws not trim heads .... cost 150 - 200 per thousand retail i spose
3*I have looked at the bit on ebay and its the right idea ....the same guy sells the screws aswell ...from memory its a stainless guy in newcastle i think...I prefer the carbi tool one cause it has a tungsten tipped counter sink but that won't effect you for a few thousand cause they take nearly 5000 screws to wear in...they cost approx 45 - 50 bucks
4* If you use nails you can't get the titadecks in stainless in 65mm x 3.15 anywhere i have searched so we use galvenised and you predrill the boards for all nails to 1/8 hole
5* Stay away from coil gunning deck down
6*If you buy screws square drive only cause you'll bur the heads out of the phillips and the downward pressure you need to apply is like 10 fold
7*if you have heaps to screw hire an electric impact driver its like a baby rattle gun

Hope this helps some

Cheers Utemad

www.dialadeck.com.au

[UteMad]

I've built more than a few decks in my time, mostly hardwood decking on hardwood joists, but a few with treated pine decking. For hardwood decking on hardwood joists it's pretty much standard to go with 50mm bullet head gal nails, with the ends of boards predrilled to prevent splitting. Never had a call back for any popped boards and it's been well over ten years for some of the decks. As the joists will still be pretty green they will shrink around the nails as they dry. If you want to remove these nails you'll generally need to lean on the end of a decent wrecking bar. I've done a few decks with 'dektites' a small metal bracket that does away with face nailing and spaces the bottom of the boards off the joists for airflow. A very good but time consuming method of fixing. I would be very suprised if you have any boards pop loose if you use hot dip gal nails into hardwood joists.

Mick