Attaching wood framing to solid brickwork

[Kaiser Soze]

Having recently moved into a solid brick house I have come apon several issues re the brickwork. Namely, what is the best method to attach timber framework to a brick wall.

I watched some chippies once attache some cabinets in about ten minutes to a brick wall and wonder if somebody knows what method they probably used.
Firstly a hole was drilled through the wood and right into the brick whilst the wood was held against the wall, then a screw with plastic plug already attached was tapped in with a hammer and finally screwed home with a drill.
This method seemed very fast and there was no pre-drilling or lining up of holes.

Does anybody know this method and can they clarify the processes used.

[Wood Butcher]

MArtin,

I have used Ramset Nylon Anchors Attachment 42744before in a situation similar to yours with no problems. The only thing is that the nylon anchors are not designed for high load scenarios so if that will be the case for you it might be best to look at something more substantial like a dynabolt (which you can get with countersunk heads if you need flush finish.

[Bleedin Thumb]

There are so many anchors on the market I can't keep up with them. You are probably best identifying the names of the major suppliers like ramset, coventry fastners etc and looking at their web sites or speaking to reps.

[Kaiser Soze]

Thats great. That web site explains a lot, including why I hated using Dynabolts!!

thanks guys

[Bleedin Thumb]

Don't bother going to Coventry fasteners site either - even more useless some of these big firms really need to get up to speed as far as their web presence goes.
BTW dyna bolts do suck don't they. I calculate 1 in 4 fail and to be truthful I have yet to come across any masonary anchor that I trust besides chemical anchors.
As far as all the preloaded ones that you refer to go I havent had a good run with the ones I've used but I don't use them all that often and there are lots out there that I haven't tried.
Good Luck

[silentC]

The problem with using things like dynabolts on brickwork is that you often hit the cavity in the brick and then if the fixed part of the fastener is deeper than the thickness of the brick at that point, of course they will fail.

I reckon the best type to use is one that expands along it's length, rather then one that pulls in and expands at the end (like a dynabolt).

What's wrong with rawlplugs or spaghetti and screws?

[Bleedin Thumb]

What's wrong with rawlplugs or spaghetti and screws?

Sometimes its too hard to line up your hole again after you have moved your board or carcass to place the plug in.

[silentC]

In the past I have done it thusly: drill the hole right through whatever I'm fixing, tap in the plug, cut it flush, put in the screw, tap the screw so that the plug is seated below the surface, tighten the screw. This only works if the screwhead is substantially bigger than the plug and no good for counter sunk heads. Also need to make sure it's firmly back against the wall because once the screw goes in, it wont pull in tight, unless you have a slightly larger hole in the cupboard or whatever.

This is why I hate working with double brick...

[Bleedin Thumb]

This is why I hate working with double brick...

Not to mention extruded brick. Solid concrete is not much better.

What I do is buy the stainless threaded studs that are used with the chemical anchors - easier than cutting threaded rod. and use a no-name brand of ramset type poly or epoxy in the hole.

If you make sure that you purge enough glue when starting your cartridge and you have blown out the dust in the hole sufficiently and twist your rod around in the glue you get 100% success rate.

This still isn't helping Martin though.

[manoftalent]

also be careful of load limits ....if your going to hang something heavy, use heavy fixings ...and in preferance I go through the brick rather than the brick coarse, less chance of it "pulling out"...in some applications where "looks" dont matter (garage, shed)....and if its heavy stuff ...I go right through the brick and use flat bar on the other side for support ....applications like a rack for timber or steel .....where the load limit changes all the time....and familiarise yourself with fixings, which ones do the best job ...have a sticky beak here .. http://www.ramset.com.au/
to get a general idea

[Kaiser Soze]

In the past I have done it thusly: drill the hole right through whatever I'm fixing, tap in the plug, cut it flush, put in the screw, tap the screw so that the plug is seated below the surface, tighten the screw. This only works if the screwhead is substantially bigger than the plug and no good for counter sunk heads. Also need to make sure it's firmly back against the wall because once the screw goes in, it wont pull in tight, unless you have a slightly larger hole in the cupboard or whatever.

This is why I hate working with double brick...

Good thought...I could do the above but add a dimple (counter sunk) washer to allow for the plug sized hole. Can I use a mortar drill bit to drill through the wood or do they make bits that do wood and brick. Or do I have to pre drill the wood?
This is getting tedious, I intend to fit a pre-fab (IKEA) kitchen soon onto double brick. Thats why I'm trying to solve this little issue first.

(Thinks, blimey, should have bought non-brick!)

[Bleedin Thumb]

In most cases you can use your masonary bit through wood plus a bit of force. Try to put your drill holes where the shelves go to hide them.

[DJ’s Timber]

When I used to install kitchens, I would pre-drill all the holes in the back of the cabinets with a normal 5mm drillbit, locate cabinet then drill thru 5mm hole with masonry bit, hammer precut 40mm spaghetti in and start screw then couple of hits to punch spaghetti thru cabinet and then drive 50mm countersink screw home

Ps Spoke to my brother who I used to work with and is a professional Installer, that they still do it this way as it is the most reliable method of fixing

[silentC]

I think you'll find a masonry bit will go through chipboard OK but it's probably not a bad idea to pre-drill your cupboard. Less messing about when you get it up there.

My method is the poor man's approach - it's the way they used to do it in the olden days before we had all these fancy toggles and what not. If you want something a bit more flash, then follow the advice above and pick out an anchor that will do what you want.

I pulled a kitchen out of a flat once and the wall cupboards had been hung by drilling 1/2" holes in the wall and plugging with wooden dowels, then screwing/nailing into that. The skirting boards were held on by nailing to wedges of timber belted into the perps between bricks.

[Barry_White]

(Thinks, blimey, should have bought non-brick!)

I think you would find it harder locating the studs than knowing it didn't matter where you drilled the hole you were going hit a brick and any way you would still need to pre-drill your cupboard with a stud wall.

The other thing with brick you can put as many fixings you want whereas with the stud wall you are limited to one fixing every per stud.