Dumbing down of Buunnings

[Wild Dingo]

George
Im keeping it cool calm and collected here because as I stated earlier I dont want this thread to denigrate Bunnings as a whole become a slanging match or a shyte fight... customer criticism is a good thing for a company to see that is how I started it and it seems Im not alone in my experience

HOWEVER

I would think that if one is standing in the TOOLS section talking to a STAFF MEMBER in that section about a product in that section then it behoves the company to MAKE SURE that staff member KNEW the tools in that section... simple really

But based on your comments... if I had have asked for a claw hammer should the staff member know what and where that claw hammer was and the differnence between it and a peen hammer a sledge manner or a blasted tack hammer? by your comments no they sshould not... that that staff member would know the difference between a palm sander and a belt sander? a phillips head screw driver and a flat head screw driver? a circular saw and a band saw? in your view the staff member should NOT know what goods are within their section... so why exactly should they have a job? clearly there is no need for them in which case Bunnings and supermarkets like them should simply have the checkout staff because with no product or goods sold knowledge they all other staff members are... redundant

George... May I suggest that a trimmer router IN THE TOOL SECTION can only refer to one thing... a trimmer bloody router! also known as a laminate router... however the important word in the TOOL SECTION was ROUTER... BUT none the less the thing is we were in the TOOL section not the gardening section not the computer shop not the electrical section... THE TOOL SECTION... did he look? nope did he care to look nope did he even bother to GLANCE upward to the stock above the show stock? nope... simply put he didnt have a friggin clue what a router was in THE TOOLS SECTION WHERE HE WORKED

That to me is unacceptable staff training at the least complete customer contempt at the worst

IF you had read my initial post {edited by me} you would have seen that my initial intent was not to "test" them but to find the sodding things! which were not on the shelf with the other power tools but up the top of the shelving... mind you they were interestingly enough not in the electrical section either surprise surprise... after that and since then yes I admit it I TEST THEM ecery chance I get... do I know where they are? sometimes yes sometimes no BUT dipstick its NOT MY JOB to know ITS THEIRS! If they dont know then their training is uptashyte and without people commenting about such things here AND in the store it will never change

Will posting such as this here make any difference to how Bunnings trains their staff? Do any senior middle management or team leaders hell even floor staff at Bunnings read these boards? TOO BLOODY RIGHT THEY DO... There are several participating members of Bunnings who post to this board and others I know personnaly who read them

Do you think such companies as Carbetc Timbercon Harre and Forbes PTMS among others DONT read these boards? NEWS FLASH!!! They do!!... do they read theses sorts of threads? YES why? because if they are smart they can use them to guage a section of their customer base customer satisfaction can read and get an average veiw of what a cross section of their cusomer base think of them as a company their staff their product and yes the training they give their staff... some do just that others choose to ignore it but without it no one sees the depth of discontent or better yet the content that their customers gain or recieve from their shooping at their store

HOWEVER

It is not just in the tool section its across the board in this company... YES I have already stated that there are some great people that work there no matter which store.. as with all things and work places there are good excellent and poor staff "the human factor"... so its across the store and not just one isolated store therefore the company SHOULD look at a) their HR section b) Their selection process c) their training programs d) ongoing monitoring of staff at shorter than what appears to be present periods

What I am asking is "is Bunnings dumbing down their staff?" Thats the question being asked... Im not asking a hard question Im not asking for abuse contempt or derogitory comments about the company or staff members in particualr or specifics nor fellow forumites... nor did I expect any... a simple question that you either agree with and choose to give examples of or not... or you dont agree with and give examples of or not easy not difficult and offers up a range of opinion and experiences that others may or may not agree with

{again edited by me}

[Sturdee]

What I am asking is "is Bunnings dumbing down their staff?" Thats the question being asked... Im not asking a hard question Im not asking for abuse contempt or derogitory comments about the company or staff members in particualr or specifics nor fellow forumites... nor did I expect any... a simple question that you either agree with and choose to give examples of or not... or you dont agree with and give examples of or not easy not difficult and offers up a range of opinion and experiences that others may or may not agree with

But then sometimes some people just choose to be dipsticks

I wasn't going to get involved in this debate as it has been done many times and my view is known, but calling people dipsticks for disagreeing made me change my mind.

So did all those who are unhappy with Bunnings ever let their opinions known to their management.

Did you ever fill in one of their cards at the exit to let them know you were unsatisfied.

If not, why not?

Maybe it is because it is easier to come here and vent your spleen than complain direct face to face to the company.


Peter

(who is heartily sick and tired of the forever whinging)

[dazzler]

I wasn't going to get involved in this debate as it has been done many times and my view is known, but calling people dipsticks for disagreeing made me change my mind.

So did all those who are unhappy with Bunnings ever let their opinions known to their management.

Did you ever fill in one of their cards at the exit to let them know you were unsatisfied.

If not, why not?

Maybe it is because it is easier to come here and vent your spleen than complain direct face to face to the company.


Peter

(who is heartily sick and tired of the forever whinging)

Hi sturdee

Maybe you missed the context of the dipstick bit. WD was responding to being called 'old matey' which is fair enough .

But you are right that we should use the complaints process more if we don't already. I know I dont but tend just to walk away with the *&*^& and whinge later.

But then again, isnt that a managers job to manage the place correctly. Blind freddie Manager could tell that at least ours needs to be cleaned up so that Mr Dazzler can at least get his ute into the place to load stuff up.

When I was running teams I can tell you I didn't need a suggestion box to run them efficiently

My biggest whinge is just how fantastic they were when they first started and how they have slowly evolved downwards. The ones in canberra were great, great knowledgable staff, clean, tidy and safe, good value etc etc. The Hobart store was great. The Port Macquarie was but isnt now.

Sadly that wonderful experience, and full support, is no longer found for many of us .

I have decided to write to them today about my whinge. Will see how it goes.

cheers

dazzler

[Sturdee]

I have decided to write to them today about my whinge. Will see how it goes.

cheers

dazzler

Great. I'm all for telling a company's senior management of the shortcomings of the staff in one of their stores.

Normally head office staff don't get to hear about any problems, the very people that report to them, the store managers, are often at fault for not picking up about these things in the first place and even if they did they wouldn't tell about their inefficiencies.

Peter.

[Wild Dingo]

Peter
I took the "old matey" comment as an insult a facetious and condescending manner of treating someone you see as or having done something beneath you... so given that my returning the "compliment" with the word "dipstick" I felt was fair enough... I find being called "old matey" in the context used as insulting demeaning and so responded in kind... {I have since deleted the references}

Needless to say...

Did you ever fill in one of their cards at the exit to let them know you were unsatisfied.

If not, why not?

Maybe it is because it is easier to come here and vent your spleen than complain direct face to face to the company.


Peter

(who is heartily sick and tired of the forever whinging)

IF you and some others would just bother to friggin read you would have read

If they dont know then their training is uptashyte and without people commenting about such things here AND in the store it will never change

Peter I have had stand up arguments with some "team leaders" and what passes for "managers" at these stores but that was beside the point and not the intent of the thread and as such thought such better left out and so left them out

But Peter tell me this... Why is it "whinging" when someone asks a question regarding a company based on their experience if that question and experience is negative toward the company in question?... yet its ohh so bloody wonderful and totally acceptable to give high praise for good customer service? bloody hypercritical if you ask me

Yours and dipsticks comments were what I was trying to avoid because of their inflammatory content which have the potential for more such comments and then the whole thread gets shafted.

If your... "heartily sick and tired of the forever whinging"?... dont read and stop commenting on the threads you consider whingin threads then ... theres enough other threads that you and anyone else who is of the same mindset dont have to say a word and then by not seeing reading or participating you wont be heartily sick of anything

Cheers
Shane

[john paine]

It seems everyone thinks the same about Bunnies.
Why don't you go to a real hardware store?????

[Wild Dingo]

It seems everyone thinks the same about Bunnies.
Why don't you go to a real hardware store?????

I think thats a part of the whole point John... in a lot of places there is no "real hardware store" anymore Bunnings has done a very effective job of negating any competition wherever they set up shop... while initially everyone has the viiew that "Wow Bunnings is coming to town? great! some competition is great" then the same real hardware store finds itself unable to compete unable to survive against such a huge store and closes its doors and suddenly there is no competition its either Bunnings, nothing or a bloody long expensive road trip to the nearest local "real hardware store"

How does one find a "real hardware store" after Bunnings have become established and the small "real hardware store" has shut their doors?
It is only after this happens that the locals realize just how dumb the store staff are how much crap Bunnings stock and how much better the small "real hardware store" actually was... but its too late by then isnt it? no oe is going to set up a "real hardware store" with their main competitor being Bunnings quite simply they could not compete in a competative market place against a giant business like Bunnings... believe me I considered it in Mandurah do the research do the sums and thats it its over before you start... you cannot compete and remain viable against a company like Bunnings

Bunnings like Woolworths Kmart and the other big stores are slowly but surely seeing the demise of the small "real store" the local deli the local hardware the local small business catering to a neighborhood is slowly being smothered and shut out by these companies... same for the small timber mills and yards as Colli, Bunnings etc get larger so the smaller mill yards are declining simply because they cant compete against them

Its becoming endemic in this county as in the States and Canada... and part of that is what were seeing in the decline in staff training and knowledge... they dont care or cater to those with knowledge or experience... they target and aim at the less knowledgeable, the new comer and those who just want it now... so they dumb down their staff so that such people who know what they want dont bother them just grab what they want pay and leave... and with Bunnnings present tv advertising campaign its not hard to see who theyre targeting

Yes I agree we could just not go there
Yes I agree we could just go somewhere else {if there is somewhere else}
Yes I agree there are some great knowledgeable people working there
Yes I agree they have a massive range of product
Yes I agree Bunnings is a business and must look to their bottom line
Yes I agree Many staff treat working at Bunnings as a resume filler

What I dont agree with is that their staff dont need product knowledge... or that we as customers should not say something at the time or wherever else the company may have a presence.

Its far to easy to say nothing... hell its easier than being called a whinger for daring to ask a question... its easier to say nothing than to post a thread questioning the companies methods.. its easier to question the motives of the questioner and respondents than to question a company in an open forum... its also easier to say nothing... which Id suggest that most would do just shake their heads and walk away is far easier than standing up and saying something... in the store or anywhere else... but by doing so you contribute to the problem... by saying nothing or as John has said just go to the local hardware {if there is one} you condone the companies apparent dumbing down of their staff.. and yes by that action subtly condone the accidents that will happen when people accept the advice given by their staff that has been shown in some of the posts to be faulty and dangerous because the staff member had buggar all product knowledge!

See by saying your view you give your opinion good or bad... this then can help!! others here may take note and start to make sure they know what theyre after before they go there but at the same time be aware to check the info the staff give them, the company may take notice and quietly impliment change, and the staff that read it may well think "shyte is that right?" and begin to make sure to pick up their game and encourage others they work with to do the same... but its easier to do and say nothing isnt it

[Sturdee]

Shane,


So you felt insulted, don't think that was intended by the poster concerned, but you decided to insult some back.

Great Idea, not.

I may consider myself similarly insulted by your comment "friggin read" so I should insult you back. I think not for we should all be above personalities and name calling and deal with the issues concerned.

I haven't debated the relative merits of the complaints of which some seem to be well founded except to ask if management knows about them.

My question was and is :"So did all those who are unhappy with Bunnings ever let their opinions known to their management. If not, why not? " and I don't consider stand up arguments with team leaders to be management.

So unless you can post that you have contacted Bunnings about your complaint and their reply I consider your posts to be whinging.


Peter.

[Daddles]

How about the lot of you just discuss the points made or not made in the posts, and growl about any perceived personal comments to your dog rather than including them in your posts. No-one likes having a post moderated, we don't like having to do it, and there's enough to bicker about in this argument without getting personal. Hmmmm?

Richard

[Wild Dingo]

Relax Richard its okay mate

So far the thread has been as it should be... until George made what appeared to me an insult to which I responded in kind and which on reflection I will edit my response and remove the insult I initially posted in reply

Up to that point I see no problems on this thread... have some patience before weilding your big pink emu feather and you will see it should all work itself out without anyone feeling your feather on their noggins okay

Sturdee and I are simply having a disagreement with that

I have responded at length to John regarding his comments

A point I would like to make is that I didnt disagree with George responding... other than the percieved insult... it was just such responses I was hoping for as with all the other responses

Now to address Sturdees latest post if I may?

Peter
The human factor kicked in and I reacted at what I percieved as an insult... however with the benefit of doubt I see its possible that an insult was not intended and will edit my posts to reflect that

As to the matter of you choosing to see this as whingin or not... sometimes mate regardless of what one may say in their defense or within a post sometimes people miss some of what is said

Peter I have had stand up arguments with some "team leaders" and what passes for "managers" at these stores but that was beside the point and not the intent of the thread and as such thought such better left out and so left them out

I saw no need to address the matter of weather or not one has discussed their issues with management of Bunnings or not initially with this thread quite simply it was not the point nor of relevence to the question I was asking in my view... but to try to clarify although I certainly see no reason for me to have to clarify or prove anything to you or anyone else for that matter... as I have previously stated Ive also had "discussions" with management as well... not all were heated not all were arguments the implication {apparently lost} was that Ive gone through the ropes with them in store to the point of having stand up arguments with them... this method as we are all aware is not a good method but none the less it can and does get to the point where it does happen... not as often as a quiet talk not as often perhaps as someone writing their complaint on a scrap of paper that may or may not be read by those who should read them

Quite simply for this thread I saw no need for such to be included

And further more as a final note
1)

My question was and is :"So did all those who are unhappy with Bunnings ever let their opinions known to their management. If not, why not? " and I don't consider stand up arguments with team leaders to be management.

Id kindly suggest that you create your own thread and ask this question there for until you can answer the question asked at the begining of this thread... that is... "do you consider Bunnings are dumbing down their staff?" I will have no choice but to consider your posts argumentative trollings for you neither direct yourself to the question initially asked a question that others have no difficulty addressing from either perspective by the way... but pose your own questions and do not address the initial question asked.. ergo trolling

2)

So unless you can post that you have contacted Bunnings about your complaint and their reply I consider your posts to be whinging.

Fair enough see 1) above

See Richard easy

[Groggy]

Before anyone takes any of this personally, it is aimed at no individual in this thread.

Bunnies are dumbing down, no question. I think they are not alone, and are following a general trend of meeting the minimum requirement to keep costs down.

If people want good advice and quality tools then go elsewhere and expect to pay for it. I frequent a woodworking store and two specialist tool stores. I do not kid myself that getting advice at the specialist store, and a price, then going to the big green store for a pricematch is a smart thing in the long term - that is WHY these stores disappear. The dumbing down occurs AFTER the competition is gone but customers are too stupid and greedy to realise it. Unfortunately, those that do are not enough to keep the good stores going.

I get a little peeved that some people go to these stores expecting a good level of service then use all sorts of tactics to reduce the price. Frankly, a lot of the customers I have seen disgust me:

• they steal,
• they open packages and leave them on the shelves,
• they let their kids mix up the nuts, bolts screws etc,
• They change their mind about items and just dump them wherever they change their mind,
• they use tools then bring them back, saying they don't work, when they clearly have finished making their deck and now want their money back,
• tradesmen use cheapo tools and continually return them for warranty (when the company specifically excludes trade use from the warranty) pushing costs up,
• they damage stock while looking at it.

On the other hand the stores allow this behaviour and the government is happy for insurance to pick up the tab for the damage or loss. This goes onto the price tag and all the customers pay for it.

Back on track, if your store is dumbing down it is most likely because their competition is gone and they are going for some profit. Service is something you get in a competitive environment.

Ah, that feels better, rant over.

[Sturdee]

Id kindly suggest that you create your own thread and ask this question there for until you can answer the question asked at the begining of this thread... that is... "do you consider Bunnings are dumbing down their staff?" I will have no choice but to consider your posts argumentative trollings for you neither direct yourself to the question initially asked a question that others have no difficulty addressing from either perspective by the way... but pose your own questions and do not address the initial question asked.. ergo trolling

Shane,

If my posts appears to be trolling, then I apologize to you. It wasn't intended to but mainly to ascertain to what extend people have gone to when they are displeased with any store, Bunnings or otherwise.

For the record my nearest Bunnings store is Nunawading with both Vermont and BoxHill being close as well. During all the years that Nunawading has been here (2nd oldest in Vic) I have found the staff to be helpfull and pleasant to deal with, they always have a smile and know where things are (or get someone else to help me who does know).

Admittedly I generally don't need help, but the times that I did they saved me heaps of money by advising the items I was looking at weren't suitable or needed.

One was an old retired plumber who was the only one who told me that my existing gaspipes would need replacing for a new instantaneous HWS and the other time an electrician who told me that a named and expensive bell transformer wouldn't be up to the task and suggested I get a cheap garden light transformer instead, one which I already had. In both cases they talked themselves out of a sale to my benefit.


So to answer your question, no I don't think they are dumbing down their staff at my local store. Maybe they have a better management team in place, hence my question.


Peter.

[ozwinner]

Frankly, a lot of the customers I have seen disgust me:

• they steal,
• they open packages and leave them on the shelves,
• they let their kids mix up the nuts, bolts screws etc,
• They change their mind about items and just dump them wherever they change their mind,
• they use tools then bring them back, saying they don't work, when they clearly have finished making their deck and now want their money back,
• tradesmen use cheapo tools and continually return them for warranty (when the company specifically excludes trade use from the warranty) pushing costs up,
• they damage stock while looking at it.

I didnt see you in the Craporium?

Unfortunately this is the way the big retailers have programmed their buyers to behave, open, touch, feel, whinge, bring back.

Years ago, you only bought what you felt comfortable with, in price and quality, now you buy, whinge, take back.

The big retailers have made a rod for their own back.

Al

[BobL]

[I]


I do not kid myself that getting advice at the specialist store, and a price, then going to the big green store for a pricematch is a smart thing in the long term - that is WHY these stores disappear. The dumbing down occurs AFTER the competition is gone but customers are too stupid and greedy to realise it. Unfortunately, those that do are not enough to keep the good stores going.

[Groggy]

Years ago, you only bought what you felt comfortable with, in price and quality, now you buy, whinge, take back.

The big retailers have made a rod for their own back.

Things have changed. I can't help but think that lawyers have had too much to do with it though, and reason has gone through the window. It IS fair to return a broken item if it was in that condition when purchased or in fair use. That simple rule of fairness is terribly abused though.

Retailers I think are scared to say no to customers for a number of reasons. Everyone is so concerned about their "so called" rights nowadays when what they should be concerned about first is their reponsibilities. We should not have one without the other.