Electrolysis - removing rust from ferrous tools

[Bleedin Thumb]

I'm up and running now, done my hand planes and chisels and working my way through my files. 9 down 42 to go! Then the handsaws so a couple of questions.

Is it better when doing multiple items to connect them in series or in parallel?

What system do you use to suspend items in your bath, so far what I do is unsatisfactory there must be a neat way of doing this!

I have read that the ideal amperage to be drawing is about 4 amp does it make any difference if you crank that up to 8 if your charger can handle it. Does this speed up the process?

[Shedhand]

I'm up and running now, done my hand planes and chisels and working my way through my files. 9 down 42 to go! Then the handsaws so a couple of questions.

Is it better when doing multiple items to connect them in series or in parallel?

What system do you use to suspend items in your bath, so far what I do is unsatisfactory there must be a neat way of doing this!

I have read that the ideal amperage to be drawing is about 4 amp does it make any difference if you crank that up to 8 if your charger can handle it. Does this speed up the process?

G'day Bleeder. I honestly don't know the answer to your questions mate. I just do things 1 at a time. I just connect the black lead to the item and dump it in the soup and throw the switch.
If you're using a stainless steel bath I'd just make a 'coat rack' setup to span the width of the bath and hang the items from that. I'd reckon series would be the go. And, while I'm no sparky, I'd stick with 4 amp. I don't think its the amperage that's important. Its the chemical reaction between the bi-carb, the water, the rust and the current used to precipitate the reaction. Test your theories out on the crappiest old tool you have (or a horse shoe). I did an old draught horse shoe I dug up in the back yard and it looks cool hangin' over my shed door. Let me know how you get on.
Cheers
Mike

[watson]

G'day Mike and Bleeding,
Hope I don/t confuse things here.....but here's what I use:
1. A 30 litre plastic drum
2. (now) 2 stainless plates on opposite sides of the drum wired together.
3. The sodium carbonate solution is supposed to be weak, but I poured the
whole packet in by mistake....(no difference I can see)
4. I place what I need cleaned in the centre....so both sides get cleaned at once.
5. For small items I sit them on a mesh .
6. The most important fact I've found is that you shouldn't let any copper or brass
wires or connectors touch the solution or it buggers up the chemistry.
7. I have connectors made of nuts & bolts with a steel rod arc welded to them which
stick out of the solution, and I connect the charger to that.
8. I now use a home-made charger capable of heaps of amps, although the system
used to work OK on a "LION" 4 amp charger till the rectifiers blew.
9. I leave everything in for two days (no reason)

10. The dark residue left is a ferrous chemical..I'll find the name tomorrow....
and it will rust again if not treated.

I'll follow this up tomorrow when i go up the shed where the techo info is filed.

Regards,
Noel

[Bleedin Thumb]

Hi Watson those connectors sound like the go. My aligator clips are alloy and as you say you have to keep them dry. I also agree about 2 days from my limited experience even over night the peice is still fizzing.

With my files as I have been giving them a quick acid bath after electo treatment. Besides sharpening it also helps with bringing the metal back from that blackened look.
They are not rusting up again so far after a squirt with Inox.

[soundman]

All items should be connected in paralell..... I don't know how you would achieve a series connection unless you had them all in seperate baths.

I have a 4 way tail I use for connecting items. it is a 4 lengths of insulated stranded copper wire soldered together at one end and with small battery charger clips soldered at the other end. these are steel clips coper plated.

I will typicaly do 4 main parts of a plane at once.

you need to arrange the arround the tank so you get similar activity off each bit.

I use one stanless plate and turn stuff over.

I have found no problems with immersing " other metals in the bath"

Cast iron is just fine...... probaly better than steel.

bicarb or washing soda..... little difference.

Toads don't electrolisise well.

cheers

[watson]

G'day Soundman,
Love the toad quote......but at least its skin would soften well!
Here's the reference to other metals touching, and I should have specified this, the anode.

http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/...cles_363.shtml

what he says in the last para is:
"It is important that any copper connected to the anode does not touch the solution. If it does, copper will oxidize to cupric ion, Cu⁺⁺. The connector will be destroyed. Most of the copper ions formed should precipitate as copper carbonate or copper hydroxide, but if any of this dissolved copper reaches the cathode it will be reduced to copper metal on the iron object. Its presence will promote rapid re-rusting."

The chemical reaction stuff I'm a bit "rusty" on (sorry for that) but it all makes sense to me.

Regards,
Noel

[Bleedin Thumb]

Well I haven't got an answer to current vs speed of rust removal so I will don the white coat and grab a clip board and try to set up a controlled experiment which is not too hard but will take a bit of diligence.

What I have in mind is to get a uniformly rusted thingy and cut it in half. then seperatly doing the business at different currents for exactly the same periods of time then compare the differences.

If anyone has a better idea I'm all ears (and thumbs).

[watson]

G'day Bleeding,
Do you possess an ammeter or a multimeter capable of a 10 amp reading???
If so, try the recommended dose of sodium carbonate with stainless on the anode, and rusty crud as the cathode. Put the meter in series with the circuit, and measure the current. Add another Tsp of sodium carbonate and measure the current. Continue adding until you see a fall of in current. Go back a cupla Tsp to find your ideal solution for your system.
Bugger, didn't want to tell you..........now I'll have to kill you.........(joking)

You're dead right about the lab coat etc....we don't know what your water is like.....what size container......what amount of water/sodium carbonate......current through the circuit.
This is the fun of it......I make a mistake and spill the whole packet of soda in the barrell and it still works......
Bugger, I'm going on ebay to buy a Lab coat.

Regards,
Noel

[Shedhand]

I did say I wasn't a sparky. This all sounds to technical for me. What I do works for me. [shrugs]

[Bleedin Thumb]

G'day Bleeding,
Do you possess an ammeter or a multimeter capable of a 10 amp reading???
If so, try the recommended dose of sodium carbonate with stainless on the anode, and rusty crud as the cathode. Put the meter in series with the circuit, and measure the current. Add another Tsp of sodium carbonate and measure the current. Continue adding until you see a fall of in current. Go back a cupla Tsp to find your ideal solution for your system.
Bugger, didn't want to tell you..........now I'll have to kill you.........(joking)

You're dead right about the lab coat etc....we don't know what your water is like.....what size container......what amount of water/sodium carbonate......current through the circuit.
This is the fun of it......I make a mistake and spill the whole packet of soda in the barrell and it still works......
Bugger, I'm going on ebay to buy a Lab coat.

Regards,
Noel

Noel your implying that the concentration of the electrolyte solution has a huge bearing on the efficacy of the system.

Emmm interesting hypothesis but I am not convinced. I would guess that once you get ionic? transfer between the electrodes the concentration of the electrolyte would be immaterial, IE that the current wouldn't drop with a high dose as you may have already proved by dropping a whole box in.

But anyway mate I've got my own experiments to worry about ...get that lab coat on and prove your own theories. There may be a race to the Nobel prizes here.
I'm writing my acceptance speech in preparation.

[soundman]

Yes I've had a couple of ........ "toad problems". I posted a discusting pic of one of them some time ago.

This taod hoped in the bath got paralised and drowned then very well electrolisised....... several days later( i was doing a particulary cruddy item) I found this discusting foamy mass in my electro bath.

keep out of reack of taods.

cheers

[Shedhand]

Yes I've had a couple of ........ "toad problems". I posted a discusting pic of one of them some time ago.

This taod hoped in the bath got paralised and drowned then very well electrolisised....... several days later( i was doing a particulary cruddy item) I found this discusting foamy mass in my electro bath.

keep out of reack of taods.

cheers

In remember that...and you're right ...it was flamin gross....