Advice on Garage Beam Span

[billylcampbell]

Hi,

Just wondering if someone could help me with a little bit of advice. I want to pull down a brick pillar which is currently in the middle of my carport. At present a beam spans from one wall to the other and is approx 5.5m long and 30cm wide. The carport roof attaches to the beam via joist hangers at the back. I have attached a photo which may explain things a bit better, as I am not very technically minded.

At present it doesnt rest on the brick pillar in the centre, I think it is there just in case. My question is two fold:

1. Firstly, is there a beam out there that can span 5.5m and is 30cm high which is structurly sound so that I can remove the brick pillar?

2. If so, where would you purchase this from and how much roughly would it cost?

Any assistance with this matter would be greatly appreciated and thanks to all for your help.
Kind Regards,

Billy

[Barry_White]

Hi,

Just wondering if someone could help me with a little bit of advice. I want to pull down a brick pillar which is currently in the middle of my carport. At present a beam spans from one wall to the other and is approx 5.5m long and 30cm wide. The carport roof attaches to the beam via joist hangers at the back. I have attached a photo which may explain things a bit better, as I am not very technically minded.

At present it doesnt rest on the brick pillar in the centre, I think it is there just in case. My question is two fold:

1. Firstly, is there a beam out there that can span 5.5m and is 30cm high which is structurly sound so that I can remove the brick pillar?

2. If so, where would you purchase this from and how much roughly would it cost?

Any assistance with this matter would be greatly appreciated and thanks to all for your help.
Kind Regards,

Billy

Billy

If you wanted to do it in steel you could use a C30024 which is a "C" purlin which you could purchase from Lysaght at Archerfield and would cost you approximately $25.00 a lineal metre. That would be 300mm high and 100mm wide and would be 2.4mm thick in a C profile. It would also be galvanised.

Actually a 200 x 60 pre-painted beam from Spanline would span that distance as a purlin but would cost you approximately $112 per lineal metre.

Sorry can't help you with timber.

Go here for locations. http://www.spanline.com.au/asp/index...cid=5281&gid=5

[Nevyn]

After talking to SWMBO who designs and details (Drafty) sheds and large steel buildings she sugests a more heavy duty beam than the C30024.

A 200PFC which is heavy duty C section 200 high and 75 wide, given it is loaded with the doors and the roof.

The C30024 would more than enough for the roof but the doors might cause some problems.

The 200PFC would be unfinished so needing priming and painting but should be a similar price. It should be easy to obtain as it is a very commonly used section.

Also welding to steel is much much easier than galv.

Hope this helps

Cheers from WA

Nigel

[olddog]

http://www.midaliasteel.com/pricelist_oct06.pdf Hopleys trusses are the thing you need,cost about $200........Peter

[ian]

Billy I can't tell from your photo, but it looks as though the existing beam is designed to clear span the car port — the front beam looks the same size as the rear one and the rear one has no center support?

If so, the pillar is probably only there so there is something to hang a pair of doors off.

Worth paying an engineer to check as you'll likely need an engineer's certification to replace the beam anyways.

ian

[Barry_White]

After talking to SWMBO who designs and details (Drafty) sheds and large steel buildings she sugests a more heavy duty beam than the C30024.

A 200PFC which is heavy duty C section 200 high and 75 wide, given it is loaded with the doors and the roof.

The C30024 would more than enough for the roof but the doors might cause some problems.

The 200PFC would be unfinished so needing priming and painting but should be a similar price. It should be easy to obtain as it is a very commonly used section.

Also welding to steel is much much easier than galv.

Hope this helps

Cheers from WA

Nigel

At first I thought I must have missed something but he makes no mention of fitting a door to the opening so the 200PFC would be overkill and the reason I suggested the C30024 is it is the same dimensions as the existing beam and would just fit on the bracket on the left and on the pier at the right without to much hassle.

As you say the beam isn't sitting on the centre pier and as ian says it appears that the beam at the back is spanning the same distance it shouldn't be any problem removing the centre pier.

A 300 deep beam of any type should not have any problem spanning 5.5 metres as a purlin as that is doing.

If he wants to put roller doors on I would be leaving it as is with the centre column and if he wanted to put a single roller door on across the opening it wouldn't be hanging of the beam any way. It would be hanging off the piers on each side.

Even installing a sectional over head door wouldn't even be a problem on the existing beam.

But this is all speculation because he hasn't said what he wants to do apart from replacing the beam and removing the centre column.

[Barry_White]

Billy I can't tell from your photo, but it looks as though the existing beam is designed to clear span the car port — the front beam looks the same size as the rear one and the rear one has no center support?

If so, the pillar is probably only there so there is something to hang a pair of doors off.

Worth paying an engineer to check as you'll likely need an engineer's certification to replace the beam anyways.

ian

On closer inspection of the photo the centre beam appears to be at least 2 bricks deeper than the front beam.

Also the beams appear to be acting as rafters rather than purlins because on closer inspection of the photo the roof appears to be falling from left to right and this is confirmed by the fact the end of the gutter on the right hand side.

This puts a whole new slant on the design and I wouldn't like to speculate on a design with out knowing more about it.

[billylcampbell]

Hi Guys,

Once again this forum is a great place for advice. Thanks to everyone who has helped out.

I think the C section beam C32004 would be the way to go. I wont be putting a roller door on the front as it would block out a substantial amount of light from the rumpus room and lounge room. The carport and rumpus room are an extension from the old owners.

The middle beam is approximately twice the size of the front beam and sits on L shaped brackets. There is a fall from left to right, but it is almost finite.

Just a couple of further questions.

1. Would the 'L' shaped bracket be strong enought to support the 'C' section beam suggested? or are there other ways of fixing this to the wall?

2. Currently the joist attach to the front beam by hangers. How would you connect the joists to the C section beam? also due to the reduction in size of the C section from the original beam I dont think the joist will reach, how would I overcome this.

3. How would I fix this ontop of the brick pillar on the right hand side of the photo?

I think the installation of this beam is a bit outside my depth of handyman experience. Who would I contact about installing something like this?

Once again thanks for all your help in relatoin to my questions, especially at Christmas time.

Merry Christmas,

Billy

[Barry_White]

Billy

Can you post some pictures of the inside showing how the joists are fixed to the beam then I will have a better idea of how to do it.

The angle bracket would support the c30024 no problem. You could use a similar principle on the other side at the column. Fixing anything up to close to the top bricks of the wall or piers is not a good idea as it can loosen the top bricks.

To have someone to do this for you, you would really need a licenced builder.

[arms]

If so, the pillar is probably only there so there is something to hang a pair of doors off.

i have a tendency to agree with ian ,the centre pillar is only there so that if you were to fit roller doors the guide rails would attach to the pillar ,the thing that gives it away is the fact that the beam is not resting on the pillar ,and if it is the same size as the middle beam which spans the distance and if the front beam doesnt have a join over the column then it will be structurally sound ,try to wobble the column first to make sure that it is not supporting the beam ,if not then there should be no need to replace the beam just use the existing ,no need for engineers either as the beam would have been passed when the house went through on the final inspection

[billylcampbell]

Hi Guys,
<O</O

Thanks once again for all your help. The photo that I posted was an old one and we have done a bit of work since then.<O</O
<O</O

The builder that we had to do the work initially did a god awful job and too cut a long story short he refunded all our money for the work that he did. The front beam is part of what he tried to do.<O</O
<O</O

On closer inspection and from the photos posted the centre brick pillar is not used at all to support the carport roof. As Ian and Arms have posted, it is only for support if roller doors were to be added at a later time.

<OI now need to replace the current two beam setup with just a single beam. I prefer to use timber as I need to cut a 'L' shape out where the fascia board sits as per the photos. I am going to trim the joists and attach them to the new beam with joist hangers. Does anyone see any problems with what I am trying to do?

<OMy next question is to see if it is possible to get a timber beam 5480mm x 290mm x 70mm. If so where would I get one from? and how much do you think it would be? <O</O
<O</O

Thanks for all your help, once again this is a terrific forum.
Kind Regards,<O</O
<O</O

Billy <O</O

[ian]

I now need to replace the current two beam setup with just a single beam. I prefer to use timber as I need to cut a 'L' shape out where the fascia board sits as per the photos. I am going to trim the joists and attach them to the new beam with joist hangers. Does anyone see any problems with what I am trying to do?

Billy
firstly, I expect that you will have to buy a beam that is 5.7m long so that you can trim it back to 5480. But you might be lucky and find a 5.4m one that is just long enough for what you want

Secondly, may I decline to buy into your 'L' shaped cutout.
I'm never entirely comfortable with making cutouts in beams without knowing all the dimensions and loads, and my first preference would be to modify the facia board.


ian

[arms]

personally i would use a lambeam (laminated beam) in this case instead of a timber beam ,in most cases the construction methods of a lambeam mean that the beam will only need to be around 65 percent of a timber beams dimensions to acheive the same result meaning that you may not have to notch the beam for your situation ,also when you cut a load bearing beam the load that you can apply to the beam is only relevant to the smallest section of the beam and in your case will be the height of the L shape that you are thinking of doing making the timber beam under rated for the load

[pawnhead]

also when you cut a load bearing beam the load that you can apply to the beam is only relevant to the smallest section of the beam and in your case will be the height of the L shape that you are thinking of doing making the timber beam under rated for the load

Not necessarily. If the L is cut out of the bottom and not the top, then there may be a tendency for the beam to split under load. Hoop iron strapping around the end of the beam, just after the cut out should fix that. Or just a nail plate on either side. It's quite common to cut a taper on top of some roof beams to clear the pitch of the roof and it doesn't affect the strength of the beam so long as you're not cutting too much out (there is a standard for this. I think it's 1/3 the depth of the beam).
If a beam is going to fail under load, then it will most likely fail in the middle where the stresses are greatest. It's highly unlikely that it will just shear off at the ends even if you have made an L cut out so long as you reinforce it against splitting, and don't cut out more than about a third (from memory) of its depth .

edit: - You could always just reinforce the existing beam using a cable truss set up to minimum depth. It wouldn't protrude much below the beam if you set it up properly, and it would only protrude in the middle, and you could cover it over if you didn't like the look of it. It saves you pulling the beam out, they're not all that expensive, and they're quite easy to fit with just a drill and a spanner.

edit 2 : - In fact, after looking at the pictures and thinking a bit more about it, you could set it up so it doesn't protrude at all. Just chop a notch in the middle for the plate and get a couple of turnbuckles to tension it at the end. You'd just have to cover it over from the front with some hardiflex and Bob's your uncle.