spa bath pump connection

[davo_scuba]

Folks
I am in the middle of putting in a spa bath with a heat maintenance pump the pump is under the bath on a full supporting base and has a 1.8m lead with plug attached.
which way do i go to attach it the power, do I:

1. run a cable with a socket to the pump under the bath(good if i ever need to take the pump out for maintenance).

2. do i run the lead up the wall and attach to a socket half way up the wall (will have no access to this once walls and tiles are up).

3. take the lead off and wire directly into the pump.

4. any other ideas???

the circuit has a rcd but still a bit worried about water getting to it. how prone are bath spas to leaking after instillation ?

any advice would be welcome

[silentC]

Get a sparky!!

There are regulations regarding the location of points in relation to spas, which you need to know. They also require a dedicated circuit (10 amp or 15 depending on the pump).

Definitely don't hardwire it.

[davo_scuba]

surely i don't have to put a new line in ??

I will have a look at the size of the pump but it's not a heater pump so I can't believe it's going to draw to much current.
it's only a normal bath size spa, not a big out door jobbie.
have attached a copy of pump, in the table i think it's the first one (3 amps running).
but will have a look and get back
davo.
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=585 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#ffffff><TABLE class=gentxt cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=10 width=580 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>
Davey Pumps
Introducing a revolution in spa bath pumps

Decina Bathroomware in association with our pump supplier, Davey Products are
proud to introduce the first breakthrough in spa bath pumps since the self draining
pumps of the seventies.
The DAVEY CELSIOR (tm) breaks new ground in many areas and Davey, a proudly Australian Company have taken out world wide patents on
a number of aspects of its design. Decina is also proud to have had an input in many of its features ensuring that the Celsior (tm) pump maximises the performance of our spa baths.
The Celsior (tm) pump is not available on all brands of spa baths and you should check to see whether it is on your short list of manufacturers before making your final spa bath selection. Decina is the first manufacturer to introduce this innovative pump.

At the heart of the new design is that the pump's electrical motor, normally cooled by a fan, now uses that previously wasted heat energy to maintain the bathwater temperature. By encasing the pump in a stainless steel water jacket it creates a more efficient, quieter, more compact, and energy efficient system. Clever design of the pump's impeller combined with a motor working more efficiently have also enabled it to make significant gains in performance. Good old Australian ingenuity has allowed it to be installed more cost effectively inside and outside without the need for a stand or cover.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>The Celsior (tm) pump features are -

• Heat recovery motors on all models reduces the need for electronic heating
• Increased water flow on all models making today's multi jet systems more efficient
• Up to 50% quieter than more traditional pump designs
• Reduced energy consumption even where an electric heat boost model is chosen.
• Greener function with energy from the motor now used to maintain bath water
  temperature rather than blown away by a fan
• Easier installation with 'flexibrax' bracket arrangement
• Pump can be fixed direct to external walls without the need for a stand
• Pump can be exposed to the weather without needing a cover
• Up to five electrical cut-out safety features
• Up to 15% lower running costs than older style pumps
• 97% efficient energy usage
• Pumps up to 2hp and with electronic boost heat function can still operate off a 10amp
  power point.

HEAT RECOVERY TECHNOLOGY

The Celsior (tm) pump motor is encased in a stainless steel jacket while the rest of its body is built from advanced thermoplastic that will not rust and is approved for not only internal use but for the harshest exterior exposure.
The design utilises Heat Recovery Technology to capture wasted heat energy from the pump motor and maintains the temperature of your spa baths water for longer with this 'free heat'.

The Celsior (tm) pumps have been developed
by Davey's industry leading team of designers and engineers using the latest
CAD (computer aided drafting) technology. The pumps have been subjected to continuous lifecycle tests to ensure that they live up to the Davey reputation for quality and reliability.


The water flowing to the pump from the bath is directed into the centre of the pump and through its water jacket where the pump motor heat is transferred to it. During the development of the pump testing allowed Davey to match the heat lost through a typical
spa bath with that generated by the pumps heat recovery function. The result is that during a typical 30 to 40 minute spa bath the water temperature will remain fairly static. Of course the pump will not heat cold water and if you fill the bath with cool water you will still have cool water at the end. So in hot climates the function does not alter the comfort level of the bath whilst those who want to start with a hot bath will now be able to keep it without having to purchase a heater.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Davey Celsior (tm) comes in three forms.

• The basic models, C200A, C270A and C400A, offer three different power/water flow specifications. In these heat retention is standard as are all the features above. Operation is by pneumatic air button mounted on the bath rim.
• Next, the above models also come with electric heat boost where an element in the pump will operate to slowly increase the heat in the water to a pre-set thermostat. The pump heater turns off and on automatically as required. This range comprises models C200AB, C270AB and C400AB.
• Finally, the top of the line model, standard on our Premium Line spa baths and optional on all others is the C200TB and C400TB. These feature heat boost, but the heater is operated by a touch pad control on the bath rim.

All models operate off a 10 amp powerpoint, unlike other pumps and this is possible only because the pump uses the waste heat from the motor to maintain the bathwater temperature. This is the first green pump available here with up to 97% effective energy usage.


PERFORMANCE
Davey has patented new technology in the pump's impeller area which combined with a motor running more efficiently, significantly increases water flow.

Over the past decade there has been a strong trend towards putting more and more jets in spa baths to provide improved massage action. Our range now features baths with up to thirteen jets and the spa bath pumps available have been struggling to keep up with the performance required. There are three Celsior (tm) pumps for different sized baths or jet configurations and the larger models flow considerably more water than the older models. The result is much more water available to feed the jets.
<TABLE class=gentxt cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=350 align=center border=1><TBODY><TR class=medtxt bgColor=#88d4e4><TD>Model</TD><TD>Previous Flow Rate </TD><TD>New Flow Rate </TD></TR><TR><TD>200</TD><TD>200 litres/minute </TD><TD>200 litres/minute</TD></TR><TR><TD>270</TD><TD>250 lires/minute</TD><TD>300 litres/minute </TD></TR><TR><TD>400</TD><TD>300 litres/minute </TD><TD>400 litres/minute</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>INSTALLATION
When designing the new Celsior (tm) pump. Davey looked carefully at the installation needs and started with a fresh palate

The result is the Flexibrax bracket system. The pump now requires support only under one part of the pump rather than two. The bracket can be located onto either a horizontal support or vertical. In the past, pumps were generally supported from below only. For applications where the pump is inside the bathroom this has often caused problems where installers lift or lower the pump height (which is critical to its ability toe drain and self-prime). Now the pump can also be attached to vertical framing as well as bottom support.
Where the pump is to be located outside the house, no longer does it require a waterproof box or metal stand to support it. The pump is IP56 rated so it can be left out in the weather and as the Flexibrax bracket can be turned sideways it can be mounted direct to the external wall with all the consequential savings this offers.

SAFETY FEATURES
The Celsior (tm) pumps feature up to five individual safety devices to ensure they are as safe as possible under any circumstances. The safety devices monitor air, water and motor temperatures ensuring that dangerous situations such as the heater being switched on while the bath is dry, do not occur. On the touch pad models a blocked suction will also switch off the heater and pump within seconds.

? Information Request
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD width=5 bgColor=#88d4e4> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[durwood]

I have put in a couple of spa's in the past two years.

In both cases I put an access hole next to the pump and a power point on the wall as high up underneath the bath close to the access door so I could connect and switch the power on to the pump when necessary. I also made sure I could get the pump out through the access door if it ever needed to be removed. The worse thing about bathrooms is you neally always are putiing in a bath which has to be set into the floor and the supporting surround. once its in and the tiling is done wrecking it is the only way it going to be removed.

I had a power point in the bed room ( laundry for the other one) and I extended the wiring to provide a new point for the pump.

Don't think there is much chance of there being a problem with leaks but I used the old drain pipe from the previous bath to which I cut off level with the concrete floor so that if there was a leak the water would run away and not build up under the bath. The second one I drilled a hole in the floor to allow any water to drain under the house.

If its a fibreglass spa make sure you put a good layer of cement under it and don't step into the bath to bed it down. If you do you may find the bath pushes the mixture further down and when you get out the bath will spring up and you will have a gap between bath and cement, so its not supported.

Press down on the bath around the edge only.

[silentC]

I had a power point in the bed room ( laundry for the other one) and I extended the wiring to provide a new point for the pump.

That's the kind of thing I'm always on about. They create these regulations for a reason you know. My sparky told me, and the instructions that came with the pump insisted, that the pump be connected to a dedicated 10 amp circuit. In fact he assumed it would be a 15 amp circuit until I showed him the documentation that came with the pump. I don't know why, I'm not an electrician. Anyway, it's your house and who takes notice of rules and regulations, right?

The other thing you are supposed to do is put the pump in a drip tray with a drain so that it doesn't leak all over your floor and cause problems with rot etc. It should also be firmly bolted down so that it doesn't vibrate and loosen the fittings. But you probably don't want to know that either, right?

[silentC]

Just checking the doco that came with mine (Onga Hydromassage). It also says that an earth leakage or residual current protection device must be fitted.

[Iain]

We fitted our pump externally, above the bath intake so that it will drain completely when not in use, read no stale water and bad smells.
It also plugs into a power point on the wall, ours does not have a heater though and could be different regs.

[silentC]

I put mine in a cupboard that backs onto the bathroom. Had to make a quick decision when we ordered the spa to get the plumbing on the right side. The powerpoint is on the other side of the wall, so no problems with location regs (Zone 1 apparently). The main thing is that the pump and the power point are not accessible to anyone sitting in the spa.

Regarding the wiring, my sparky is an industrial guy, not domestic, so it could be he is over cautious. As for the pump doco, they usually err on the side of caution too. I just don't think that for the cost of running the extra circuit it's worth skimping on, but then we were wiring the whole house at the same time. Like I say, not really sure why but that's what I was told to do.

My pump installation instructions are very clear that the health regulations require the pump to be installed so that the inlet is higher than the bath inlet so that the whole pump drains when the bath is empty, so I did that too.

Now if we could just get some rain so I can fill it up and use it

[davo_scuba]

The pump is on a full supporting base so no plumbing required also fall from pump is correct so no water laying in pipes and is properly bloted down (but no drip pan ?)
the house is a high set and it has two power circuits all the living is up stairs and we seldom go down, the laundry is now in the same room as the spa so the washing maching and spa will never be on together and there are about 5 or six other double pp on that circuit which is protected by a double rcd (for the two circuits) in the main box.
if i have to put in another line i will need a new box, as i have no more space, also i will need a new rcd for that line and a circuit breaker, it's all starting to rather expensive then to find an electrician that will be clean and tidy (good tools, professional job)and will try not to over charge at every opportunity and is happy for me to run the cables.
Maybe i could put blanking plates on all the pp down stairs and run that as a single line???
The bath we have is the modena 1800.
Thats two diffrent comments on this is there anyone up in brisbane that can comment on this. or is a good sparky and wants to get paid in kind remarks and golden nuggets.(joke about the kind remarks ).

any suggestions please.
davo


BASE, RIM & PUMP SUPPORT FRAME

This frame supports not only the base, but the front of the spa bath. It is not available on all models. The frame is bonded to the bottom of the bath in our factory. In some cases the pump is attached to the frame. Some packing of the front supports will be necessary to allow for the varying thickness of the sheeting and or tiles.

[silentC]

There are a couple of sparkies on here and one of them is from Brisbane I think.

Maybe you don't need a new circuit but I'd still be talking to a sparkie about it if I was you. The point is, I don't know, you don't know, some others think they know but a sparkie is paid to know. And he has to fix it if he's wrong. See?

[davo_scuba]

this website was quite useful http://plan.arch.usyd.edu.au/hmm/lea...mBullMay05.pdf

with reguard to the zones etc and what sort of switches are ok for the bathroom etc.
davo

[davo_scuba]

I've had a look at the wiring rules in the AS/Nzs 3000 in section 7 requirements for special electrial installations or locations.

but as i read them there is no information on sockets placed in the stud wall and covered by 2 cover panels (1 in the wall itself and second on the end of the bath which will be the maintenance panel screwed and tiled).

All that is being shown is areas that will be exposed to water and body contact as zones. nether of these two will ever happen.

I will use a IP66 switch socket outlet and use the downstairs circuit (but will run a new cable down just incase so the socket can be switched over if need be.
I am not to keen on running the new curcuit but will take the cable back to the junction box incase this needs to be done (but can't see why?)
then call a sparky to put the socket on and plug it in (which is far to hard for any normal person who does not want to spend $100 ).

so if there are any sparkys near ikea in brisbane that want and easy job and charge by the minute please feel free to contact me.

davo
(dry soh)

[silentC]

I don't think there are going to be any issues regarding location, as long as it's inaccessible from the bath and not likely to get water splashed on it.

My sparky is away at the moment, so I can't ask him why he said we needed a dedicated circuit.