Cracking Up?

[mikey]

Hi All,

I have attached a photo of the cracking in my hall ceiling. My task should I choose to accept it is to repair it.

My question is, can it be repaired or should I rip out this bit of ceiling and replace it (length 2.5m x 1m ish)? Cracking has progressed a little more since these shots.

Under this of course is what might be causing it in the first place - house is an older 1930s single fronted weatherboard with internal brickwall that you can just make out in the shot. Has been restumped around 10 years ago and having just pulled up the flooring in the adjacent bedroom the stumps all seem to be ok.

Some degree of slight sagging in roof rafters but ceiling is floating.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Dont worry about the crap colours its all up for painting over the next few months.

Thanks in advance.

Mikey

[johnc]

I'd wait for a sensible answer but it looks like lathe and plaster giving way to gravity to me. Rod will answer but I would think replace would be best in the long run. 1930's should be early plaster sheet though so may be that collapsing instead.

[OBBob]

Ah ... lath and plaster ... my pet hate! It isn't very resiliant to movement. If you have the option and don't mind making a brief mess I would replace it with gyprock (especially if you are about to repaint).

It can be repaired and there are some good reasources mentioed on this site for that but you probably wont stop it occuring again.

[Bleedin Thumb]

Sorry for butting in ..but I always call it Larden Plaster and a quick google suggests I'm not alone so is Larden Plaster a bastardisation of lath and plaster or is there a difference? Does lath and plaster still contain the horse hair/straw that larden plaster does?
Questions,questions,questions!

[OBBob]

As I understood it the laths are the thin strips of wood and the plaser is ... well the plaster that those masters somehow managed to smothly smear across the walls and ceilings.

The 100 odd year old style of lath and plaster generally does not contain any hessian, which is why ist so hard to fix. It loves to just keep crumbling away and it difficult to get fillers etc. to stick to it.

[mikey]

Thanks all for the comments.

I should say that the ceiling is not the original 1930s - the house was 'renovated about 10 - 15 years ago and it would appear that they replaced it - I need to look at it a bit more, but the bedroom ceilings are hanging on metal brackets and not directly on to rafters - presuming this is so for the hall.

What would be involved in replacing it - I'm pretty handy at pulling things apart and down - pretty crap at putting them back together again. Presume I get in some form of mini hoist and screw the new into the existing brackets??

Thanks again
Mikey

[johnc]

I'd definately replace, gyprock is pretty cheap and you will get a good result. I'd think Rondo is your friend, and it is possible someone has stuffed up a Rondo fix if the metal brackets are above that collapsing ceiling. You can get brackets that allow you to fix the fuhring (?) channel and then adjust it later to get it all nice and flat. Maybe that is what you have in the other rooms.

As for Larden Plaster or Lathe and Plaster, stuffed if I know if they mean the same thing or are actually something slightly different.

Once again Rod will appear eventually with a few hints when he gets the chance.

You will need stud adhesive to fix to the battens, and the sheet is held by screws until the glue sets then removed. The joints are taped and filled, there are usually handyman notes you can pick up on how it is all done.

John.

[Tools]

OBBob is on the money,the lathes are the strips of wood that are rendered and set over thje top of.Fibrous plaster is what has hair in it,and comes in sheets ,unlike solid plaster that is a sand and cement mix,with a set coat over the top.I agree with JohnC that it looks like lathe and plaster,not fibrous or board.If you do replace with board, the screws need to stay in permanently,they do not come out.You need to put one screw in the recessed edge on either side,and double screws at third points across the width of the sheet,making sure that you don't have glue where you are screwing.

Tools

[rod@plasterbrok]

Hi Mikey,

That is the old lathern plaster you have there. I would say they have replaced the bigger ceilings and left this one. A common thing to do if it is not too bad.

What you will find over the next few months many houses in Melboure are going to suffer the same problem as the drought takes hold.

The drying up of the ground creates the movement and therefore the cracking. During these dry months you would be better off watering around or under your house rather than your garden.

There are serveral options for you. But judging by the photo I doubt that repairing this ceiling is one of them. Of course a closer inspection may change that opinion.

The way the cracks are would make me think quite a large section on this ceiling would fall out when you cut back the cracks for repair.

One option (the messy one), is to strip out the old ceiling and replace with plasterboard and new cornice. The victorian cornice design is readily available.

Another option if you dont mind losing a bit of ceiling height is simply build a new frame under that ceiling and leave that one where it is. sheet with plasterboard and new Victorian cornice. We have replaced many hall ceilings like this. If your ceiling height is 3.3m like many 1930's houses losing 150mm won't be a big deal. Better not to reduce the ceiling height to anything under 3m though.

As the hall is only 1m wide you can use a rondo part number 140 furring channel wall track and furing channels. The 140 is only 28mm deep and can be fixed to the wall directly under the old cornice or if the old cornice is easy to remove without colapsing the ceiling better still.

Fix the wall track along the length of the hall on each side to the bricks with nylon anchors. Then cut the furring channel to fit reasonably firm to the width of the hall. The furring channel fits into the track and will comfortably span the 1m without any fixing up into the ceiling.

This way you don't have to touch the old ceiling and it will look exactly the same when done with no mess and can be completed in about 4 to 5 hours.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

Rod

[mikey]

Rod and others,

Thanks for all the insights. I will remove thiis bit of the ceiling and replace it - it doesnt appear to be part of the larger ceiling that extends in the bedroom.

When it's down I might even get someone in to vacuum the rubbish out of the roof cavity as there seems to be a bit of plaster rubbish etc up there are the moment.

As Rod says, the drought is causing a few problems and I have noticed some of the wall plaster starting to show a few hairline cracks around the windows.

The list of things to do has now hit 2 toilet rolls in length.

Thanks again.
Mikey

[OBBob]

Welcome to the cluib!!