Complete Kitchen Renovation - Advice Required Please

[Metal Head]

The wife and I have decided last week that we are going to have a complete new kitchen and have the whole renovation done by one company. Consequently, we went down to the Harvey Norman renovation centre in Oakleigh this morning. However, we were disappointed to learn that the 30 odd kitchen displays they had are now reduced to five, as the others were unfortunately damaged due to a water pipe bursting. Anyway, after being asked a few basic questions, we were given a quote of between $16,000 - $25,000. We were told if we thought the quote was ok, we could have a designer consultant come to our house and have an accurate quote drawn up after discussion with the designer.

Therefore I would appreciate hearing off anyone who has had their kitchen (or bathroom) installed by them and what they thought of the workmanship of the work done and the professionalism of the tradespeople?. Has anyone had another mob do a kitchen renovation (the whole thing - tiling, electrics etc) who they would recommend (or maybe not:mad: ).
<O</O

Thanking those in advance for their replies.<O</O

Kindest regards
David

[woodsprite]

Strewth!!! Did you have $50.00 noted flapping out your pockets?

We had a complete kitchen rebuild about 18 months ago, for $9.600! The local guy ripped out all the old benches, cupboards and plumbing, levelled up the walls, etc. Then built a heap of overhead cupboards, under bench drawers, an island bench with drawers, a huge pantry and some great bench tops. Then organised for sparky and pete the plumber to come and fit their stuff for lights, power points, electric oven and gas bench top cook top, rangehood, and relocate a couple of powerpoints and a down light over the sink. Did a great job, sat down with us at design stage and talked us through the best way to get maximum efficient use of the kitchen - 3 weeks from first talking to him to him finishing it.

We supplied new oven, sink, taps, rangehood and gas cooktop (and the dishwasher which had been given to us). All up TOTAL cost was just on $11,000.00 - admittedly we used laminex for bench tops (black marble pattern) and for all drawer faces, cupboards etc. But we reckoned we got a top job at a great price.

Of course if you are going for polished timber everything, and paying top dollar for appliances this will bump the price up a heap.

Talk to a couple of specialist kitchen-makers, get their ideas about what works and what doesn't, what looks good and what doesn't. I reckon you can get well under $16,000.00 and certainly under $25,000.00!!

Good luck - it pays to hunt around. Oh, our guy came prepared with a large folio of his work and a long list of customers we could ring if we wanted to check him out.

Jeff

[woodsprite]

Forgot to add that I did the tiling - above sink, cook top and benches, and also repainted the kitchen after they had finished.
Jeff

[Metal Head]

Strewth!!! Did you have $50.00 noted flapping out your pockets?

Hi Jeff,

Firstly, thanks for the quick and indepth reply - much appreciated. No I didn't have any $50 notes flapping out of my suit pockets but I was lighting up my gigars with $100 notes instead. No seriously, the quote was based on having Caesar Stone work surfaces and laminated cupboards as well as tiling, electrics, painting, new flooring, new appliances ($3000 worth) and a 10 year warranty on labour and goods. Admittedly it seemed expensive initially but with no one else to compare with I presently would not know any differently. We have had a very stressfull time in recent months (you would already know if you had read some of my other threads) because of tradespeople messing us around and we have got to the stage where we want just one company to do the whole thing - then X cannot blame Y because C wasn't .... you get my drift?.

Would you be as kind as to PM me with the details of the guy who were talking about please?.

Regards
David

[woodsprite]

JUst PM'd you - hope you get it! I am newish here and not sure yet of all the workings of the board - plus my normal email program has spat the dummy at the moment.
Jeff

[arms]

- then X cannot blame Y because C wasn't .... you get my drift?.

get a couple of quotes before deciding on anyone ,dont be pressured into signing by any any "designer" HAH ! these are usually just salespeople whose only objective is to get as much money out of you so that their commision is bigger ,ask for past work ,phone numbers of past clients ,
you will usually find that the smaller cabinetmaker will do you a better deal and know or recommend plumbers,electricians etc that will do the job for you,make it clear from the word go that you will not be paying the final payment until all the work is completed ,get everything that will be done down on paper and both you and the cabinetmaker sign both copies and keep one for yourself ,this will come in handy later if you find problems starting to appear ,be friendly ,this usually results in a lower quote

[Metal Head]

- then X cannot blame Y because C wasn't .... you get my drift?.

get a couple of quotes before deciding on anyone ,dont be pressured into signing by any any "designer" HAH ! these are usually just salespeople whose only objective is to get as much money out of you so that their commision is bigger ,ask for past work ,phone numbers of past clients ,
you will usually find that the smaller cabinetmaker will do you a better deal and know or recommend plumbers,electricians etc that will do the job for you,make it clear from the word go that you will not be paying the final payment until all the work is completed ,get everything that will be done down on paper and both you and the cabinetmaker sign both copies and keep one for yourself ,this will come in handy later if you find problems starting to appear ,be friendly ,this usually results in a lower quote

Thanks Tom for the excellent advice - much appreciated. However, as I stated previously I don't want seperate tradespeople working on our Kitchen. How hard is it to get one company to do the whole lot, or is that expecting too much here in Australia:confused:. Surely HN are not the only big name who have gone down this road?.

I am very surprised that not one member here has had a kitchen installed by HN - there I was thinking Gerry was the ultimate Australian salesman.

Regards
David

[Sturdee]

I am very surprised that not one member here has had a kitchen installed by HN - there I was thinking Gerry was the ultimate Australian salesman.

Regards
David

I'm not David. Most would have been like me and did the renovation themselves ( I even built all the cabinets :eek: ) or at least would have organised the various trades rather than deal with an expensive chain.


Peter.

[Ashore]

Mate didn't use HN but another company
1/ cost depends entirely on what you install use we pumped 30 k + into our kitchen and other than the plumber ( who I sacked ) are completely happy with the result
2/ Don't go with a garbage disposal unit under the sink, you never use it
3/ Granite benches and splash backs are worth every cent
4/ Low voltage under cupboard lights are great
5/ Put in as many drawers as you possibly can they beat Cupboards 10 2 1
6/ go with low voltage down lights and put plenty in ( we have 6 ) as they cost buggerall to run
7/ If you are going for pollished floors do them first then install the kitchen
8/ Microwave convection ovens are 100% better than microwave ovens
9/ Make sure your oven is fan forced ( including Microwave)
10/ Check every thing twice before making the final payment Then check it all again


Rgds

[arms]

Thanks Tom for the excellent advice - much appreciated. However, as I stated previously I don't want seperate tradespeople working on our Kitchen. How hard is it to get one company to do the whole lot, or is that expecting too much here in Australia:confused:. Surely HN are not the only big name who have gone down this road?.

I am very surprised that not one member here has had a kitchen installed by HN - there I was thinking Gerry was the ultimate Australian salesman.

Regards
David

what i meant was that the smaller cabinetmaker will know of tradesman that they use to do other jobs and by him recommending them they will be obliged to do the right thing by you , HN does not make kitchens ,employ electricians,plumbers,tilers they simply subcontract out the work to tradies and charge you a profit on top for controling the sequence of events ,same as the smaller cabbie will no doubt do ,whats the difference:confused:

[Sybarite]

Hi David,

It sounds to me like you want someone to take complete control and hand you one invoice for a completed kitchen.

As Tom said, most of the "name" kitchen suppliers are just facillitators who hand on the work to various subbies; and add thier own margin to everything that passes their desks.
Their sales people are there to sell as much a they can - they are NOT kitchen designers in the sense that you would want (expect) them to be.

There are a lot of people who can do this for you, many of them private cabinetmakers or variations on the theme.
Many of these people have their own networks of tradies and suppliers, and, if you want, can run an entire job for you including all extras and installation.
Anyone who is going to take the responsibilty of managing this sort of caper is going to charge you for it - and fair enough, as you have observed it is not always a stress free activity.

The real difference between using a "name" and a smaller crew to do the same thing is that inevitably (if it wants to survive) the small business will be more focussed on and in touch with the day to day activities and commited to the deliverables, not just making the next sale.
Smaller businees can less afford to screw you around keeping you waiting for installers or followup work, as they need to keep the turnover happening and for the jobs to be finished and out of the picture.

There should be a heap of businesses in your area who will be willing to take the time to sit down with you and discuss your needs.
A lot of these guys advertise in the local community papers, as they are targeting their own regions for convenience.

Cheers,

[Metal Head]

Hi David,

It sounds to me like you want someone to take complete control and hand you one invoice for a completed kitchen.

As Tom said, most of the "name" kitchen suppliers are just facillitators who hand on the work to various subbies; and add thier own margin to everything that passes their desks. Their sales people are there to sell as much a they can - they are NOT kitchen designers in the sense that you would want (expect) them to be.

There are a lot of people who can do this for you, many of them private cabinetmakers or variations on the theme. Many of these people have their own networks of tradies and suppliers, and, if you want, can run an entire job for you including all extras and installation. Anyone who is going to take the responsibilty of managing this sort of caper is going to charge you for it - and fair enough, as you have observed it is not always a stress free activity.

The real difference between using a "name" and a smaller crew to do the same thing is that inevitably (if it wants to survive) the small business will be more focussed on and in touch with the day to day activities and commited to the deliverables, not just making the next sale. Smaller businees can less afford to screw you around keeping you waiting for installers or followup work, as they need to keep the turnover happening and for the jobs to be finished and out of the picture.

There should be a heap of businesses in your area who will be willing to take the time to sit down with you and discuss your needs. A lot of these guys advertise in the local community papers, as they are targeting their own regions for convenience.

Cheers,

Thanks Peter (I'm not as talented as most here to build my own), Ashmore (for the hit list it will come in useful later on), Tom (sorry I was not having a go at you - I just wish I could have explained it as well as Earl did) and thanks to you Earl - you hit it on the head with your explanation.

As Earl said I am (within reason) willing to pay the extra for HN services because I will get a 10 YEAR WARRANTY on everthing and know there is a good chance they will be around for that time. I also know that the job will be done in one hit and just one bill - no stopping for days while one tradesman is blaming another one (been there & I don't want that s--t again). Unless you know someone in the trade (I don't) or recommendation (I don't) getting someone from the local paper or yellow pages is like Russian roulette. From my experiences so far I don't have much trust (or confidence) in tradespeople here in Melbourne who have ripped me off at least 3 times and they were all registered:eek: in their trades. So they are no worse than those who may (supposedly) work for HN. I couldn't see a company like HN keeping on tradies if they were not compentant at their work because they have a reputation to keep.

So no one here has ever had a renovation (even in the bathroom) done by HN?. So everyone here in at "Woodieland" either builds their own or buys kits and put them together.

Once again thanks to everyone who has contributed to my questions.

Regards
David

[renomart]

I have found that people will go with a 'name' kitchen company because they feel secure in doing so. That is not to say the local cabbie will not do a better job, but a lot of people find it harder to trust someone who doesn't have the media exposure.

Anyway, established 'name' kitchen companies designers will 'down design' your kitchen to enable them to sell their kitchen to you for the lowest possible price.

'Down designing' is designing a kitchen with the least amount of cabinets.

They do this knowing full well that the next kitchen company (most people get 2-3 quotes) will be doing the exact same thing.

All of the companies will be pushing their unique features and benefits and will be trying to establish an intrinsic 'worth' or value for money for their kitchen.

They will then apply a 'discount' so as to establish an urgency to buy on the night.

The customer will see that the 'name' kitchen companies are pretty much specced the same. That's why 'down designing' plays an important role in order for the designer to sell the kitchen for the lowest price as it is usually price that determines who will get the business.

Metal Head, HN kitchens normally start from 15k upwards. They outsource their kitchens from a local supplier.

You will get a better quality kitchen from Freedom for much less money. (and they organise all of the trades as well).