Shellac not glossing up

[woodsprite]

A quickie - because it's small . I am renovating an old cedar desk tidy - the little timber box that Railways Clerks and Very Important Other People had on their impressive green leather covered mahogany desks, to keep their stationery and pens in. It is - I think - cedar, and I have sanded it back well, and rubbed in about 10 coats of french polish. All I come up with is a satin sheen - not a sign of a bright gloss.

Am I doing something wrongful here, or do I have to persevere a little longer. Have been rubbing in about 4 lots of french polish and letting it stand for an hour or two, then repeating. I will be using hard shellac once I get the colour depth I want, but don't know that this will bring up a high gloss on this piece either.
Any suggestions?
Jeff

[ubeaut]

Have you ever done this before?

Describe how you are applying the shellac. Are you using a french polishers rubber to apply the polish or are you just using a piece of rag?

How fine did you sand?

What shellac are you using and is it fresh?

Did you make it (mix it) yourself or buy it?

You obviously purchased some Hard Shellac but what of the lot you are using now?

[woodsprite]

Just typed a long response - didn't send, so here it is again!
I am using UniPro orange shellac flakes bought in a tub about 6 weeks ago. Made up my polish using Diggers meths. On the two pieces I have finished (with a very satisfying result) I used an old sheet cut up with wadding inside, as a rubber. The chair has Hard Shellac on it at the moment waiting to cure before I wax it for the final finish - the gramophone cabinet is getting a Hard Shellac finish today.

The problem piece has been progressively sanded through the grades with final rub done with 1200 grit. I have used an old cut up t-shirt as the material for the new rubber I made, with wadding inside. I moved from the cabinet to the current job yeterday, using the same jar of polish - the only change I have made is in the material for the rubber - t-shirt is a closer weave thanthe old sheeting. Been rubbing on along the grain - about 3 or 4 coats in succession then let it stand for an hour or so, and repeat.

Have only been 'french polishing a few weeks, but I have been delighted with the results on the first two jobs.

Any help greatly appreciated! And good to see that I am not the only one who uses buckets of Midnight Oil!

Many thanks,
Jeff

[ubeaut]

Replacing the t-shirt material with cotton or linen will make a huge difference.

Don't go with grain. Work by varying the application between circles, figure 8"s, ovals and straight strokes. Don't apply wet on wet which is easily done when going with the grain don't have the rubber dripping wet, have it so that you virtually have to force the polish from it. The rubber should not be soft but bordering on being hard.

Cedar takes more work than most timbers unless the grain is completely filled before you begin the polishing process.

I wouldn't be putting Hard Shellac over multiple coats of regular shellac as it could move at a different rate to the other and cause crazing of the finish in time to come.

[woodsprite]

Thanks so much! When I finish vacuuming the house (gotta keep sweet) I will have another shot using your suggestions - and let you know it went. Looks like more discrete squares cut out of the bed linen!

Pics coming soon by the way.
Jeff

[conwood]

Hi Jeff,
As a recent new user of shellac I had the same issue. I gave up on the rubber after a while and just used good quality cloth. I applied many thin layers occassionally buffing in between with cloth and steel wool. In the end I got to about 20 applications (layers).

Finally I used rottenstone and parrafin oil for the last application and got a good result.

As the administrator stated grain filling is important. I have since read and experimented with shellac as a grain sealer for other finishes too.

BTW- would like to see your finished gramophone, mine is a few month from completion..thus far 7 coats of blonde shellac.

Cheers,
Conwood

[woodsprite]

Thanks Admin and Conwood. I suspect I should have grain filled first off. The cedar is pretty close grained but also pretty porous. Next project is a cedar wash-stand - the kind that Fancy Ladies had in their bedrooms, with a hole in the middle for the bowl and water jug. I poly'ed it years ago, it went almost black, but looks good. But it will need a lot of work to get it to how I want it - including grain filler.

Will try and post some pics of my projects tonight. BTW I found a guy in Sydley who will fix my wind up gram motor - will get the shiny bits re-plated (nickel) once I am happy with the cabinet. Also, if you are into gramophones, I have an old wind-up portable in a leather-over-timber case. All there, motor works, but I don;t think I can restore the case. Interested?

Jeff

[woodsprite]

Ah, finished the housework, off to the shed to try out the suggestions!

[Wood Borer]

I too have mixed results with French Polishing, most times it glosses up but other times it doesn't.

I have put my low sheen results down to dodgy metho even though it is manufactured by well known companies the purity specification on the label makes me suspicious.

Neil mentions in his book that using pure alcohol as very important.

[woodsprite]

Well, the change in rubber material seems to have improved things a lot! as has using different strokes for application. Thanks.
Still have a dullish finish on most of the pieces (this desk tidy has 4 pull out dividers) although when I look very carefully, I can see that the main problem is probably inadequate surface prep. I can see fine scratches (from when I started sanding this thing years ago) that I have not properly removed. I will be happy I think with the semi-gloss finish I will probably have after another few sessions, and after a good polish.

Next time I will prepare the surface thoroughly, use a linen rubber and use different strokes on the piece instead of all along the grain. AND I think I might by a bible as well.

Another quick question - does the concentration of the polish mix make a difference? I used a vegemite jar about 4 inches across - put about 1 cm of flakes in and about 3 cm of meths over this.

Thanks folk for all of your help and suggestions - I am learning, and that is the big part of the fun for me!
Jeff

[Wood Borer]

I used to use the flakes for years but recently (last 3 years) I have discovered the UBeaut Shellac.

At first you might think that bottle of concentrated shellac won't last very long - do yourself a favour, buy some and just see how far it stretches and enjoy the superior quality of the Shellac. It hasn't got those bits of jute and other muck floating in it that you have to strain out.

[woodsprite]

Might have answered my own question here. Just 'thickened' up the polish a tad with some more flakes and have applied another coat. Seems to be much better finish now - not quite the mirror sheen, but satisfactory. Think main prob has been poor surface prep.

Might just get a bottle of UBeaut shellac while I am ordering the book.

Thanks again all - very muchly appreciated.
Jeff

[durwood]

You are right your mix was too weak, you have been applying tinted metho and shellac has just been soaking in to the wood and the metho evaporating off leaving nothing to polish.

Thicken the mixture up and apply some initial; coats with a brush then reduce the thickness down with more metho as you proceed.

[woodsprite]

How things change in 24 hours! Have just put the first coat of Hard Shellac on the bits and pieces of the desk tidy, and I could see my ugly reflection in the finish! Amazing what some inspiredd support and helpful comments can achieve - especially if they are followed! Thanks everyone - a happy camper I am this eve.
Jeff

[conwood]

Thanks Admin and Conwood. I suspect I should have grain filled first off. The cedar is pretty close grained but also pretty porous. Next project is a cedar wash-stand - the kind that Fancy Ladies had in their bedrooms, with a hole in the middle for the bowl and water jug. I poly'ed it years ago, it went almost black, but looks good. But it will need a lot of work to get it to how I want it - including grain filler.

Will try and post some pics of my projects tonight. BTW I found a guy in Sydley who will fix my wind up gram motor - will get the shiny bits re-plated (nickel) once I am happy with the cabinet. Also, if you are into gramophones, I have an old wind-up portable in a leather-over-timber case. All there, motor works, but I don;t think I can restore the case. Interested?

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Currently working on a book case made from Qld cedar. Pulled down and removed old dark shellac which was hiding the most beautiful grain and knots. Using tung oil for first time and am impressed with results thus far.

Could have my arm twisted with your gramaphone. (what an experience replacing the wind-up springs...I'm trying to give them up and you are not helping )

Cheers,
conwood