New DSLR camera

[Harry72]

Looking into buying a new camera to replace my old Canon PS A20(yeah she's old but served me well, help me give up smoking it did!), I dont mind playing with cameras so thinking of stepping up to a DSLR.

The Canon EOS400D/EFS 18-55mm/75-300 Zoom Twin Lens Kit deal from Teds looks good at $1650, but add a 4gig card($399) and its hitting over $2k.(a bit more than I want to spend... but if I have too)
How bigger card should I get do you reckon I'd get away with a 2gig card, how many images would I get at full res(10mp). I rather get 1 card than a couple, Im mainly buying it for the Honeymoon trip to NZ(and me woodwork... Shhhh)are there places that I could transfer the images to my 2gig USB stick while on holi's?

Or should I step back to the Canon EOS 350D with Canon 18-55mm zoom, and additional EF90-300mm lens at $1450 and spend the extra on a big card?

(edit, forget about the card... just brought 8gig(2x4)high speed, off ebay(memorymate an aussie seller of genuine gear)for $400!

[MajorPanic]

Harry,

Get real & look at a Nikon.

I can personally recommend a D70s!!!

[Stuart]

I assume you have lenses for the Canon, that will be usable on the new body. The Rebel is highly regarded in photo comp circles (not sure its Australian name).

On such a large purchase, it is worth using Choice Shopper to get the best price - basically you find the best possible price you can, and they will try to find someone to better it, with the contacts they have. I saved a small fortune on mine - but I was a bit lucky! You do need to be a member (aka subscribe). They arrange the contact with the seller (store), and arrange for the store to contact you

As to where I got my stuff from: Photo Continental (think they are in Queensland), all done either by phone, or the web. Worth checking out their website for pricing - they should be better than Teds any day of the week. If not, contact them!

http://www.photocontinental.com.au/

Oh, and don't forget probably the best independent camera review site there is

http://www.steves-digicams.com/

You can see actual full res test shots taken on whatever camera you are looking at, the entire copy of the users manual, an overview of the camera and all its functions, and a review.

[Harry72]

Sorry Maj but the D70 is behind the 400D, its the competitor for the 350D. The Nikon nearest D200 starts at $2500 body only, I cant afford(or want to) that much it wouldnt leave me enough money for the rest of the kit.
Stuart, PC's dont list the 400D yet, they're only a tad cheaper than Teds.

Ended up with the 400D from Teds, just got to wait for it to arrive... not on the shop shelf yet, mid Sept.
I grabed a tripod as well for the woodwork pics and a bag for the holi's!

So what web sites are good for newbie clickers to learn from?

[woodbe]

Here u go:

http://luminous-landscape.com/

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1031

http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/index.php

And that's only scratching the surface

Teds is remarkably competitive once they realise you are a buyer. I've bought my last 2 cameras there, thinking that they wouldn't match the price I had obtained from the cheapest internet seller I could find. Each time, they beat the price I had.

woodbe.

[Schtoo]

I don't know which camera you should buy. :confused:


I do know that the prices I am seeing from Oz are making me feel woozy. :eek:


If only the electronic goods from here all had English in them...

Although, dad snagged a Canon video camera that had English in it.

[ian]

Looking into buying a new camera to replace my old Canon PS A20(yeah she's old but served me well, help me give up smoking it did!), I dont mind playing with cameras so thinking of stepping up to a DSLR.

The Canon EOS400D/EFS 18-55mm/75-300 Zoom Twin Lens Kit deal from Teds looks good at $1650, but add a 4gig card($399) and its hitting over $2k.(a bit more than I want to spend... but if I have too)
How bigger card should I get do you reckon I'd get away with a 2gig card, how many images would I get at full res(10mp). I rather get 1 card than a couple, Im mainly buying it for the Honeymoon trip to NZ(and me woodwork... Shhhh)are there places that I could transfer the images to my 2gig USB stick while on holi's?

Or should I step back to the Canon EOS 350D with Canon 18-55mm zoom, and additional EF90-300mm lens at $1450 and spend the extra on a big card?

Now get really confused
go for a read through Ken Rockwell's site http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech.htm#digital
Ken has two basic points
1) the camera has very little influence on the final result, it's the photographer that counts
2) The choice between Canon and Nikon can be made on price.

oh, and 3) if you're serious about wide angle shots, you'll need a lens that goes as wide as 12mm.


My own view is that a digital point and shoot that fits in a shirt pocket is the way to go. Less bulk, always with you, and some even take an external flash for when you need to light up a room. The better ones (i.e. more expensive) have all the controls you'd ever want to fiddle with.

I've a Casio Exilim EX-P700 (7Mpixel) that can shoot programed auto (20+ programs), Apature Priority, Shutter Priority and full Manual. I can fit about 260 shots (at best quality) on a 1 Gb card. Equivalent to about two days shooting. Digital shots are almost "costless" so you can take heaps.


ian

[ian]

forget about the card... just brought 8gig(2x4)high speed, off ebay(memorymate an aussie seller of genuine gear) for $400!

OK so now you're committed to the camera that supports 4Gb cards of the type you've just bought

Just for interest, which of the Canons supports 4Gb cards?

ian

[woodbe]

OK so now you're committed to the camera that supports 4Gb cards of the type you've just bought

Just for interest, which of the Canons supports 4Gb cards?

ian

I think if they take that type of card, and they are a couple of years old or less, they will support 4gb. Certainly the 400D, 350D, all of the current 1Ds/n, 20D, 30D and 5D, plus various of the point and shoots.. (The new Canon P&S cameras all seem to be going SD/MMC memory)

There can be no denying the convenience of a point and shoot, but if you like having full control over aspect and depth of field, and like noise-free images, the DSLR is hard to beat.

woodbe.

[ian]

Woodbe
you really need to have a play with my Casio. About the only things sacrificed compared to a DSLR are diopter adjustment of the viewfinder, interchangeable lenses, and through the lens scene framing (which is a debatible "plus" given the rear LCD display). Apart from these it can do everything (and more) that my film SLR can do, including spot metering


ian

[BobL]

I've a Casio Exilim EX-P700 (7Mpixel) that can shoot programed auto (20+ programs), Apature Priority, Shutter Priority and full Manual.

While I agree the Casio is a sweet little camera with that super fast reaction time shutter and has a fair range of manual settings, overall it still does not have the full set of speed/aperture/shutter, depth of field, noise levels, doesn't capture RAW and has limited bit level compared to current DSLRs. Mostly these are toys for pro photographers but there have been a number of times this year I have used the 3200 ISO setting in dimly lit rooms and have captured unique images that current P&S cameras haven't a hope of capturing (see attachment, 5 portrait shot 120 degree, 61.5Mb} panoramic composite, 3200 ISO, a flash would ruin a shot like this - of course highly compressed to fit on the forum doesn't do the shot justice). Whether you be prepared to pay 3 - 4 times more for that capability is of course up to you.

Having spent weeks doing serious optical testing and digital image processing on a number of cameras and lenses I have proved at least for myself that unless you have super quality lenses (I'm talking $2000+ for the lens) and are going to enlarge to more that A3 print, anything more than about 6Mp is generally a waste of pixels for all digital cameras.

[BobL]

Woodbe
you really need to have a play with my Casio. About the only things sacrificed compared to a DSLR are diopter adjustment of the viewfinder, interchangeable lenses, and through the lens scene framing (which is a debatible "plus" given the rear LCD display). Apart from these it can do everything (and more) that my film SLR can do, including spot metering


ian

Ian, This is hardly a fair comparison - the new DSLRs are (in some ways) are a BIG step up on their film equivalents.

That aside lets still compare film SLRs against the latest P&S. For example, the aperture range on the Casio Website says the EX-Z700 can do F2.7/F4.3 - surely your film SLR can do better than this and I bet has much better DOF control that your Casio. The reason they often only provide a few (wide) apertures on P&S digis is because the small imaging chips means almost everything is always in focus irrespective of what aperture you use - ie almost complete loss of DOF control. For the vast majority of P&S users this means more in focus photos but pros and serious amateurs like to have much more control over DOF and as you probably know sometimes want to be able to throw foreground and or background out of focus.

Nevertheless I would not be without a small digi and I think they are a brilliant little device. I currently have a Canon IXUS 5Mp, a well used (22000 shots) Minolta D7 and a Canon D20. I take most of my pictures with the IXUS and if I had to choose only one camera that would be it. (It takes excellent panorama shots too - see attachment, 6 portrait shot 150 degree composite panorama, Matilda Bay Yatch club, taken in twilight from the MBYC restaurant). In 2002 my wife and I travelled Europe for 6 months and took about 12000 photos between us (almost exactly 6000 each). My wife used a 2Mp Kodak and I used the Minolta D7. In general I would say she got far more interesting and unusual shots simply because she had her camera with her everywhere we went whereas mine was not always with me. Small is good, real good, especially when you have no other camera available.

One more thing - I rate the use of LCD display to frame shots on P&S as a BIG negative. Holding a camera at half arms length is simply not conducive to holding the camera in a stable manner or following a subject while taking a photo. Then when they get dubious shakey photos in lowish light users often wonder what's wrong with the camera. I have even heard of people taking their cameras back to the store over this one. However those cameras with the swivelling LCDs are useful for taking photos at funny angles.

[Harry72]

Hmmm all these letters... much to learn, is this where the car industry got it from

ian, yes im commited to a camera (400D canon) that will support a 4gig 150x speed card(22mb sec), they are backwards compatible I think(not fully sure)that these cards would work in my old Canon PS A20(2000-1 vintage).

[woodbe]

Ian,

I'm sure your Casio is a great camera. We have a small Canon P&S, and I'm considering getting a Panasonic LX2 when they came out.

But.

A P&S just doesn't cut it when you want to get fine-grained control. Partly, this could be solved as the cameras get more sophisticated, but some of this stuff is a function of the difference in the formats. Your Casio has the 1/1.8" sensor, which is large for a P&S, but as you can see below, it is way smaller than the smallest DSLR sensor:

edit: I just realised that I had broken the terms of use at photo.net, so here is a link to the article there, rather than a scraped image. You'll see the comparison of sensor sizes about a third the way down this page here: http://www.photo.net/equipment/digital/basics/

Apart from the improvement in the quality of the image files produced by the bigger sensors, it give the photographer the ability to control the depth of field to a far greater extent than is possible with the P&S. The photographer can also choose from a huge range of lenses.

The disadvantage of the DSLR is bulk and cost. The advantage is quality of the end result, provided the nut behind the trigger has got a clue I'm sure there are P&S users who take better photos than DSLR users...

woodbe.

[ian]

Bob

Can't say I really disagree with you. One of the reasons I'm enarmoured of digital P&S is I'm sick of the weight and bulk of a film SLR and a few lenses — Nikon F90 + 80–200/2.8 ED + 85/1.8 + 24–50 + 18/2.8 + flash + spare manual body (so I can run two different film stocks) + film + tripod + spare batteries — the whole package is well over 10kg. These days I only feel like taking it along if I know I'm going somewhere I haven't been before and I've got a car. BUT the Casio can always be with me.

I often wonder how many of those who buy a DSLR and lens package ever take the camera out of full auto or upgrade to a fast lens. A work colleague recently bought a D50, and was complaining that he couldn't take portraits with a blurred background, so I leant him the 85/1.8. I think he now appreciates the difference a fast lens makes.

In the interest of full disclosure, I expect to acquire a Nikon DSLR before Christmas.


ian