World War 3

[martrix]

read this .............a penny for your thoughts?

[Groggy]

Gibbons was very clever wasn't he. This though, relates to the Western World but is predicated on the fall of a single government (US).

When one power goes into demise, another will replace it. This will occur within days, not years as in the case of the Romans, due to the speed of communications.
I'm not sure that war will result, if a global war occurs now, it will most certainly involve China and India, hence Pakistan too. Once those three are in it, the west won't matter anymore.

[ozwinner]

it will most certainly involve China and India, hence Pakistan too. Once those three are in it, the west won't matter anymore.

At least those annoying phone calls will stop.

Al

[Gra]

Hay, maybe we will get some more IT jobs over here....

[Flowboy]

Gibbon's account of the fall of the Roman Empire is simplistic at best.
If you want to look at the fall of a Western Society, the US is, in fact, a good example. You can look to its current aggressive behaviour, coupled with a constant drain of public monies along with movement of Army reservists to the fronts they develop, to recognise this. Using reservists is cheaper, and reduces the unemployment figures artificially.

There are in my opinion, two major causes of war within the world. First and foremost is religion and not a long way behinfd is Nationalism, also often described as self interest. Both are currently very highly profiled in the Middle and Far East. If you believe in a God, pray for tolerance and the end of the current monetary system.

[Grunt]

The next major war will be over resources. Oil, to be precise. I think the US, Russia, India and China will be fighting over the decreasing supply of oil within the next 10 - 15 years.

The major economies of the world rely on growth. The depletion of oil will stifle the growth of these economies. In a big way.

The the U.S. and others including Australia are massively in debt. The current debt is Check this out

For the US to continue to pay the sizeable and growing interest on this amount require there economy to grow. Australia are in a similar position.

Interesting, one of the common things about collapses of societies is when the people of the empire no longer fight there own wars and they get mercenaries to do the dirty work. The US doesn't seem to have a shortage of people who are willing to sign up.

[graemet]

Looking at the news tonight, WW3 could be on the way with Israel bombing Beirut civilian airport. It seems to me (at present, tired and emotional) that each side in that Middle East conflict are raving loonies hell bent on complete and utter destruction of the other, armies, governments, innocent civilians, tourists, infrastructure etc.
How long before other (outside) powers decide to take sides?
Is there going to be another Archduke Ferdinand snuffed out?
Perhaps we should consider blockading the entire Middle East, not just Lebanon, and let them wipe each other out.
I've never seen an image of that part of the world that would inspire possessive thoughts in anyone except a concrete plant manager looking for cheap sand, certainly nothing worth fighting over.
Cheers (or should that be "Doom & Gloom)
Graeme

(Dons flame shield)

[Grunt]

I've never seen an image of that part of the world that would inspire possessive thoughts in anyone except a concrete plant manager looking for cheap sand, certainly nothing worth fighting over.

Oil?

[Flowboy]

Grunt's comments have some...well.. grunt. It is as I said, Religion and Nationalism (or self interest). Here, that would be economic growth of each individual economy at the expense of everything that humans hold precious.
The danger in the Middle East is the total hate of the state of Israel by those Arab nations surrounding it. If Syria gets involved and with the US pretty much stretched, I doubt Israel will have much chance fighting on three fronts.
This time I'm not sure the US will be much help. Israel also is undergoing political strife. For the first time in a long time they do not have a strong, forthright and , dare I say it, visionary leader. The Arab states under the "leadership of Hammas are much more organised.

[Ashore]

Gibbons has only drawn comparisons to specific things
Was the fact that roman males no longer had to spend 20 years in military service a factor to the fall of the Roman Empire
He does not mention that slaves in Rome out numbered citizens by a factor of 3 to 1
He has in fact drawn comparisons only in fields that are reconisable in todays world and therefor his whole hypotheses is floored

Now as to the penny I will Pm you my address , something between 1929 and 1931 would go nicely in my collection thanks , I am relying on your honesty in offering the penny for my thoughts on the subject and now that I have given them that you will be forthcomming with the penny.

Rgds

[Sturdee]

The danger in the Middle East is the total hate of the state of Israel by those Arab nations surrounding it. If Syria gets involved and with the US pretty much stretched, I doubt Israel will have much chance fighting on three fronts.
This time I'm not sure the US will be much help.

The US will always help Israel, there is no doubt about it.

The Jewish lobby in New York is too powerfull for a President to ignore Israel. If he does he wouldn't get re-elected which is the cardinal rule and only aim of any politician.:mad:

The other thing that the US will never forget is that Israel has enough nuclear weapons and the means of delivery to obliterate all the arab nations around it and therefore make the world's major oilfields unuseable. Also, unlike the US, they have the will to use these weapons as a final resort for they will never allow another holocaust of their people to happen.

Given the above and the Arabs desire to drive Israel out of existance the US will never allow that situation to happen and they will help Israel, if not openly at least covertly.

Peter.

[martrix]

Good discussion and some very pertinent points.


some History of Palestine

[Harry72]

I cant even pronounce that number!
(notice its gone up 10,000,000.00 in 3 hrs...)

[Flowboy]

Thanks Sturdee, I should have made mention of this in my response. (Blame it on the limited capacity of by brain!)
There are two facors which complicate the US/Israel friendship.
George (Nucular) dubblya really doesn't control the administration. That role is shared between Don Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney, both of whom have huge holdings in Haliburton Inc. This is the company that got most of the oil, laundry and other business arising from the invasion of Iraq. They have a vested interest, to say the least, in maintaining control over Iraq. Also, George may not be there much longer.
In addition, the US is currently tap dancing on water with Iran and has just reached agreement with Damascus. It would be easy for Syria to allow free transit of terrorists to Iraq, while fighting Israel with its regular army. Thus the US must be very careful whose and how many toes it stands on. So I think you will see a lot of Diplomatic effort (Go Conny Go!!) and stalling, but military intervention is open to conjecture.
Just for good measure, throw in Nth Korea and now India, where as people have previously stated, US business has a very large stake.

Regards,

Rob

[Toolin Around]

This quote was attributed to Albert Einstein. I don't know what WW3 will be fought with but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones. That means I could be a super power cause I have a mean fastball