Query re: orientation of timber floor

[Shedhand]

G'day,
About to lay Select Tas Oak T&G Flooring (85x19mm) over 19mm Trudek. The area being layed is approx 8 metres X 4.5 metres with the long dimension facing northish. Door and window glazing is Pilikington ComfortPlus Tinted Grey.
My question is, what is preferable? Laying the T&G boards down the long dimension or across the narrow dimension. The T&G boards are end matched and nothing shorter than 2.7 metres. The boards will be secret nailed and finished with 2 coats of Treatex.
Any expert opinions out there.
Cheers

[bitingmidge]

My opinion (not expert) is run them at right angles to the joists even though it's over the trudek.

At least two manufacturers I know recommend that.

Don't forget that at 8 metres you are into the size where an expansion joint is also recommended, so it may pay to get some advice from the supplier as to whether you can get away with it.

I wouldn't have worried in the past for "only" 8 metres, but I've seen two floors re-done in the last twelve months due to expansion issues, which tells me there's been a change in the industry somewhere!

Cheers,

P

[Shedhand]

My opinion (not expert) is run them at right angles to the joists even though it's over the trudek.

At least two manufacturers I know recommend that.

Don't forget that at 8 metres you are into the size where an expansion joint is also recommended, so it may pay to get some advice from the supplier as to whether you can get away with it.

I wouldn't have worried in the past for "only" 8 metres, but I've seen two floors re-done in the last twelve months due to expansion issues, which tells me there's been a change in the industry somewhere!

Cheers,

P

Hmmm...do you mean an expansion gap at right angles to the length of the board across the 4 metres? I'll have to check with my supplier.
The boards are not being supplied by a regular flooring manufacturer. The guy I'm getting stuff from the from worked at Gunns for years and knows shyte from clay (he reckons their stuff is not vey good). He is very hard in selecting his "select" grade. It is almost featureless (which is what we want). No gum - no knots - no checks - kiln dried on site to 7 -10% MC. If I do find a board I don't like he'll come and get it and replace it no charge. They source their Tas Oak from selected fellers and won't sell rubbish. For all that I reckon $40 /m2 is a great price. I recall paying $2.05 a lineal metre in 1986 for 105x19 standard grade kd T&G so it compares very well.
Thanks for the input Midge.
Cheers

[bitingmidge]

Hmmm...do you mean an expansion gap at right angles to the length of the board across the 4 metres? I'll have to check with my supplier.

The "books" do imply that, but I've never done it and haven't heard of it being done. Parallel to the boards is pretty important though.

In the good old days, we used to lay timber floors straight on the joists and build the frames over the top and never had a problem, probably because there was enough "give" through the wall fixings for the whole floor to move, or it may be that the moisture content was quite a bit higher so expansion didn't occur.

It's a problem these days though!

Don't forget to lay the boards out and leave them for a bit (the book says a week! :eek: ) before laying.

Now let's wait for some real information from the Grafton Boyz!

Cheers,

P

[GraemeCook]

Our home has Tas oak floors with the passage at almost 15 metres long and the lounge room at ten metres with the flooring laid direct onto the joists. There are no expansion gaps and after 125 years all seems well.

Years ago I worked for a timber company (as an accountant, not a technician) and remember that we dried timber to two standards - normally 12% moisture content, but to 8% for material destined to air-conditioned offices and furniture. If your timber really has been dried to 7-10% then it may rehydrate and expend in the process. Bitingmidges suggestion of laying out the timber for ten days is critical to ensure that it is all at the same moisture content.

Cheers

Graeme

[Shedhand]

Our home has Tas oak floors with the passage at almost 15 metres long and the lounge room at ten metres with the flooring laid direct onto the joists. There are no expansion gaps and after 125 years all seems well.

Years ago I worked for a timber company (as an accountant, not a technician) and remember that we dried timber to two standards - normally 12% moisture content, but to 8% for material destined to air-conditioned offices and furniture. If your timber really has been dried to 7-10% then it may rehydrate and expend in the process. Bitingmidges suggestion of laying out the timber for ten days is critical to ensure that it is all at the same moisture content.

Cheers

Graeme

Which timber company. I was with Risby's in the early 80's.
Thanks for the tip. Cheers.

[Larry McCully]

Hmmm...do you mean an expansion gap at right angles to the length of the board across the 4 metres? I'll have to check with my supplier.
The boards are not being supplied by a regular flooring manufacturer. The guy I'm getting stuff from the from worked at Gunns for years and knows shyte from clay (he reckons their stuff is not vey good). He is very hard in selecting his "select" grade. It is almost featureless (which is what we want). No gum - no knots - no checks - kiln dried on site to 7 -10% MC. If I do find a board I don't like he'll come and get it and replace it no charge. They source their Tas Oak from selected fellers and won't sell rubbish. For all that I reckon $40 /m2 is a great price. I recall paying $2.05 a lineal metre in 1986 for 105x19 standard grade kd T&G so it compares very well.
Thanks for the input Midge.
Cheers

any chance you can send me a pm on this fellas number

[Larry McCully]

G'day,
About to lay Select Tas Oak T&G Flooring (85x19mm) over 19mm Trudek. The area being layed is approx 8 metres X 4.5 metres with the long dimension facing northish. Door and window glazing is Pilikington ComfortPlus Tinted Grey.
My question is, what is preferable? Laying the T&G boards down the long dimension or across the narrow dimension. The T&G boards are end matched and nothing shorter than 2.7 metres. The boards will be secret nailed and finished with 2 coats of Treatex.
Any expert opinions out there.
Cheers

You are within the limits of not having to have a expansion joint. Their are two ways of a expansion joint 1: Every 6 to 8 mt a 6 to 8mm joint filled with a jointing compont such as cork or a elastomeric compond such asa sika pro2hp

2: every 1.5 to 2 mt a 1.5mm gap. When i build sports floors, i use a 1.6mm thick piece of plate and get a boiler maker to put a 90 deg bend on one edge at least 5 mm wide. each plate is only 50mm sq. i put one at each joist at the 1.5mt mark. i then secret nail the next 4 boards before taking them out and moving them up to the next 1.5mt mark. This allows for correct expansioning without the unsightly big thumper in the middle of the floor. you can lay in any direction if you are laying over a 19mm subfloor. It is a good way of changing directions if needed. I have not seen any adverse effects with it.

[Larry McCully]

About expansion again. a floor will expand width ways more than length ways. The expansion is placed at the tounge and grove point not through the board.

[Larry McCully]

The "books" do imply that, but I've never done it and haven't heard of it being done. Parallel to the boards is pretty important though.

In the good old days, we used to lay timber floors straight on the joists and build the frames over the top and never had a problem, probably because there was enough "give" through the wall fixings for the whole floor to move, or it may be that the moisture content was quite a bit higher so expansion didn't occur.

It's a problem these days though!

Don't forget to lay the boards out and leave them for a bit (the book says a week! :eek: ) before laying.

Now let's wait for some real information from the Grafton Boyz!

Cheers,

P

we usedto call them... platform construction, now days they are called fitted floors. I used to make a packet of monet by putting one coat of poly down, just in case it rained and the floor got wet. Well on many occasions i went back the next day after that shower and saw huge ponds of water sitting on top of the floor. The problem was that even thou the top was sealed the edges wernt and the water would get down inside the grove and blow up. At the end of the day , not a lot of thought was put into the effects of water on wood. I am glad it has now turned into a science, and floors are getting built so that they become a asset to the dwelling, and not just a thing to put carpet on

[bitingmidge]

I used to make a packet of monet by putting one coat of poly down, just in case it rained and the floor got wet.

We just used to issue our chippies with a mop, five gallons of linseed oil and a pint of terribine. The whole brew was sloshed over the (tightly cramped) floor, and over the next few days would collect a healthy "protective coat" of sawdust and mud, like a crust really.

By the way, we always made the floor blokes responsible for punching off as well, that way there were never any claims for torn sandpaper!

Gee I miss those days!

P

[GraemeCook]

Shedhand

I was with Stettin Bay Lumber and Open Bay Timbers in New Guinea in the seventies.

I remember well Risbies Central in the eightees, but then Risbies, K&D, Clennets and Charles Davis all expanded greatly at the same time, and only one survived in hardware. That was vicious competition for the short term benefit of the customers.

Cheers

Graeme

[E. maculata]

In the good old days, we used to lay timber floors straight on the joists and build the frames over the top and never had a problem, probably because there was enough "give" through the wall fixings for the whole floor to move, or it may be that the moisture content was quite a bit higher so expansion didn't occur.

Peter is on the right tack here (even got a nautical term in ) how many of the other building materials from " the good olds are even still being utilised, let alone the technique, ergo our floors had to match the pace or fall by the wayside IE; a partially air dried floor where in a given pack the M/C could range from 7% to 20% all very locally sought timber, then tightly cramped and fastidiously handnailed onto green hardwood joists then the house built over the top from freshly felled timbers all taking the next 6-12 months. When said house is finished no A/cond or humidity control, windows and doors opened all through summer, wet mopped by Ma' once a day, no air flow to speak of under house, winter house loocked up with hot water boiler going etc. I reckon this may partially explain why, then you have todays customers, would you accept a floor that was cut from whatever was left over from what the mill was really cutting for, which may have been rough dressed to size only, and the moisture was guesstimated at , neither would I............... today, looking at my 80+ year old floors in our "new" home I reckon I'm better off with todays supply, but then again I'm fairly biased .


Bruce C.
(Ex Grafton Bloke)