mdf/custom wood

[Andy Mac]

I think the fact that Bunnings etc sell small pieces of MDF may be due to their reluctance to actually cut the stuff themselves?
I dislike the stuff personally but it seems unavoidable now. It gets used here at work a fair bit, especially by students for painting on. I cut it with a dust extractor on the saws, but refuse to sand it. We actaully did some carving with it as an intro class some years back, horrid stuff as you can imagine...the finish sanding was neccessary but we wont do that again.
I've heard that ply is much the same, even lining a shed, for instance, can cause health prolems due to off-gassing (I think thats the term?) from the formaldahyde glue.
The more I hear, the less trusting I become...it just seems that any given company will develop any number of products regardless of the potential risks, simply to make a profit. Like asbestos, DDT, cigarettes, any number of medicinal drugs, leaded petrol, the list goes on. Any concerns voiced by the average Joe is dismissed as "anecdotal" evidence at best, and its not untill there becomes a wide enough outcry (read profit line ramifications) that the Government is reluctantly involved (given some of these companies are powerful lobbyists), wades in and slaps a few wrists. I'm waiting for a couple, like mobile phones and microwave ovens, and even hair treatments (dye, conditioners etc), but maybe I'm just paranoid now!

Cheers,

[silentC]

I picked up some MDF doorstop from Mitre 5 the other day. Only had the little car so I asked the guy if he was happy to cut it for me. He looked at me a bit odd. I said "what, are you allowed to cut this stuff?" He says "yeah, no problem". I had expected him to say "no" and let me do it myself. He seemed to be completely unware that there was any issue about cutting the stuff. No mask, just cut it in half on the saw and handed it to me.

[HJ0]

HJO
I cant see your side of this discussion as valid from either the employee or the employer perpective. Maybe I'm looking through the wrong glasses and missing something. Do you actually own or manage a business that employs staff or are just saying this to bait me.

Firstly I don't give a damned about insurance companies profitability, personally I think the're the scum of the earth but in most cases they are unfortunately necessary. The organisation I work for is sufficiently large enough to be self insured but this doesnt eliminate underwriters etc.

Next your views of fines and receivership don't make sense, not from a business point of view. My company has a budget for next years projects in excess of $400M and about $2B over the next five years. Our protective clothing (trousers, shirts, overalls, jackets etc) expenditure for a year is about $1M. If we were fined $100K as a result of negligence or stupidity then there would be serious changes in the management even though $100K is not a significant amount compared to turnover. But that $100K still has to come out of profits and all business needs to profit to continue.

Fines are not part of business. They are an avoidable overhead that directly affects the company profit margin. Most fines are scaled, 1st offence small, next one larger, following one larger again. All coming out of profit. Can you afford it? Maybe you dont have shareholders/stakeholders/business owners.

Business need to profit to continue to employ staff, but your view is receivership is the norm. What a load of crap. You don't start a business with expectations of ending up bankrupt.

Lastly I watch either ACA or TT every night and swap between the most interesting stories. Generally companies go toes up through gross mis-management or through the dealings of others such as refusal to pay for goods or services etc. Gross mis-management like fines is avoidable, normally just takes a bit of common sense.

....................................................................

I'm not baiting you mr lol



Markw: I never said receivership was the norm, I said it was part of life like taxes/death/stupudity etc. If you call that crap then your views have been lost on me.

I can see your point and also that your a company man, who has possibly been brainwashed with large dollar figures.

You talk about common sense , because your furture has been riding on the back of a huge company which may never go bust.

You/investors can asess every risk known to man when starting/investing in a business, but the second you make a choice to start it you have already taken your first risk.

ie Nothing more than a sometimes heaverly financed gable at best, just because people are paid rewarding amounts of money, doesn't mean the risk asessement fairy will make it all rosie every time.

Stop talking as if business is a risk free proposition, which can be kept under strict controls at all times. Maybe your position on the ladder has shelted you from lifes reality so long, you now think every angle can always be kept under control.

A matter that gives me great pleasure, is knowing that no matter how large/rich/powerful/intelligent or risk savvy a person or company is or becomes.
The hand of fate will always have the final say.

When the richest man in australia goes to jail belly up, I know i'm doing real well in life. And please don't say he had bad risk management skills lol.


Having experienced both investing and insurance end results for myself. Also from a customers point of view. I have no hate for anyone, be they rich or poor.

I do think this thread has been lost in a finacial slurry. And the more serious issue of a person who is ill, should be held a lot higher up than it is at present.... Hope you all agree.



HJ0 Hope your friend gets well soon Now i'm off to the shed for some light hearted ww lol:eek:

[HJ0]

I picked up some MDF doorstop from Mitre 5 the other day. Only had the little car so I asked the guy if he was happy to cut it for me. He looked at me a bit odd. I said "what, are you allowed to cut this stuff?" He says "yeah, no problem". I had expected him to say "no" and let me do it myself. He seemed to be completely unware that there was any issue about cutting the stuff. No mask, just cut it in half on the saw and handed it to me.

...........................................................

Thanks Silentc

Think you just saved me from being called a liar lol.

Go Bunnings and about 3 other great places, I know of who cut mdf.

No I don't own any of them, I'm just a lowly wwer lol


HJ0 ATT: I do not advocate not wearing safety glasses/dust masks or any other satefy gear required for a safe working enviroment... wonder how many of you have contacted bunnings over this issue? be honest lol

[scooter]

Tell that to ?Carter Holt Harvey? 30+ years ago when they were manufacturing the then next best thing - asbestos.

Think you mean James Hardie, Stu ?

wonder how many of you have contacted bunnings over this issue? be honest

HJO, read post #25.


Cheers.............Sean

[Stuart]

...........................................................

Thanks Silentc

Think you just saved me from being called a liar lol.

Go Bunnings and about 3 other great places, I know of who cut mdf.

No I don't own any of them, I'm just a lowly wwer lol


HJ0 ATT: I do not advocate not wearing safety glasses/dust masks or any other satefy gear required for a safe working enviroment... wonder how many of you have contacted bunnings over this issue? be honest lol

I find that information does that some time to filter from one store to the next, and it may be that it is an advisement that each Bunnings manager can choose, but I doubt that. I'm pretty sure Mitre 10s don't have the same restrictions on cutting MDF that Bunnings are meant to (yet).

As to HJ0's little bait about safety glasses etc, I was getting some untreated pine cut recently (too hard to transport 3.2m lengths!), and watched the guy finish off his current job of cutting treated pine without respiratory protection. When I gave him my job, he dutifully donned a dust mask and did the cuts. When I asked why he cared about protecting himself from untreated pine dust, and not from treated pine dust, he just shrugged - "depends if I can be bothered putting on the mask".

I felt like an actor from one of those biohazard movies about Ebola, where the crack response team moves into the potentially infected hospital with suits and full face helmets, portable air supply etc. and meets a doctor walking the other way with nothing. They stop and look at each other, and the doctor say - "well one of us is about to feel really stupid"

[Stuart]

Think you mean James Hardie, Stu ?

Cheers.............Sean

Probably! It's Carter Holt Harvey in NZ that supplies it- got the names / countries mixed up

[HJ0]

Ok please let me make this my last reply on this safety issue, My ww is suffering.:eek:

I can honestly say that in all the years, I have had wood of any kind /mdf/treated pine etc cut. The person doing the cutting has used their saftey glasses/shield/dust mask would be 5% of the time at best. Not counting even having or turning on a dust extractor.

Just the other day a young worker cut me some timber with a radial arm saw(not at bunnings). the closest safety anything did not exist... maybe they were all still in the wrapper hidden under the bosses desk so no dust could get on it .


HJ0 I'm Not baiting anyone, just giving my own views.

[Markw]

....................................................................

I'm not baiting you mr lol



Markw: I never said receivership was the norm, I said it was part of life like taxes/death/stupudity etc. If you call that crap then your views have been lost on me.

I can see your point and also that your a company man, who has possibly been brainwashed with large dollar figures.

You talk about common sense , because your furture has been riding on the back of a huge company which may never go bust.

You/investors can asess every risk known to man when starting/investing in a business, but the second you make a choice to start it you have already taken your first risk.

ie Nothing more than a sometimes heaverly financed gable at best, just because people are paid rewarding amounts of money, doesn't mean the risk asessement fairy will make it all rosie every time.

Stop talking as if business is a risk free proposition, which can be kept under strict controls at all times. Maybe your position on the ladder has shelted you from lifes reality so long, you now think every angle can always be kept under control.

A matter that gives me great pleasure, is knowing that no matter how large/rich/powerful/intelligent or risk savvy a person or company is or becomes.
The hand of fate will always have the final say.

When the richest man in australia goes to jail belly up, I know i'm doing real well in life. And please don't say he had bad risk management skills lol.


Having experienced both investing and insurance end results for myself. Also from a customers point of view. I have no hate for anyone, be they rich or poor.

I do think this thread has been lost in a finacial slurry. And the more serious issue of a person who is ill, should be held a lot higher up than it is at present.... Hope you all agree.



HJ0 Hope your friend gets well soon Now i'm off to the shed for some light hearted ww lol:eek:

But first I shall have my right of reply.

LOL = Laugh out loud, but I haven't found anythng remotely funny in this thread?

I reject your assurtion that I am a "company man" and "brainwashed" for whatever reason and find this somewhat insulting. You do not know me personally but to set this issue straight I'm employed as an engineer for the purpose of sourcing materials and equipment. I neather side with management nor the rank and file, but act as a consultant to provide objective opinions and advice to either "side". The knowledge our budgeting figures is available and often told to all employees so that we all have a knowledge of the corporate direction.

You imply that common sense can only be used in large companies that can afford it. By your own assertion you don't come from a company where this is apparent or you would realise that common sense doesnt cost anything.

I have no interest in financial risk. Shares and the like are just legitimised gambling and to most investors just a way to make money. The risks I consider are those where injury or death result from negligence or lack of risk management. As to my position in life being sheltered, what ####. I started my employment in a trade. I've been there. I know how dangerous a working life is and I've seen my fair share of accidents. I work to prevent these from happening while your attitude would seem to be so what accidents happen. Maybe you need re-education on how industry now views injury and loss of life. Most of us view accidents as unacceptable.

If your or your company cant achieve your goal without subjecting your employees to a risk of injury or death then get out of the way and let somebody else do the work. This is what safe work methods do and they are required by law (OHS Regulation 2000). I employ Contractors at times and if they don't have a safe method of work then they wont get a start.

Further I find people who seem to take pleasure from the misfortunes of others even if they are the "richest man" objectionable. Unless you have been personally wronged why would you take pleasure in this.

Lastly as to my thoughts on Insurance Companies, it is the company as an entity, not the people who staff it. Any company IMO that profits from the injuries of workers and the fears of the employers is contemptible.

Well I hope you have a nice time in your shed

[inferno6688]

my local bunnings have no problems with cutting MDF for me. though there cuttig area is outside, and they they a Jet DC.

I do remember years ago though, bunnings refused to cut treated pine for me. they just gave me a hand saw and told me to go do it outside.

[HJ0]

"Business need to profit to continue to employ staff, but your view is receivership is the norm. What a load of crap. You don't start a business with expectations of ending up bankrupt."
MARKW The great lol

Markw: Your opinion on what I say is the above,so if you have taken insult so have I LOL....although you miss quoted me.

You have no concept of my views, but seem to be expecting me to except yours.

Don't call what I say CRAP. When it's you who is having trouble excepting another point of view...your don't know me either.

PS You know what your talking about, but you are far from knowing it all like most people who think they do.


Now I'm man enough to call it quits, unless you must have you almighty right of reply. In which case I will repectfully decline lol.


HJ0 Some muthers do have em

[HJ0]

my local bunnings have no problems with cutting MDF for me. though there cuttig area is outside, and they they a Jet DC.

I do remember years ago though, bunnings refused to cut treated pine for me. they just gave me a hand saw and told me to go do it outside.

...................................................................



5 - 6 years back a place(nameless) refused to dress treated pine posts etc for their customers,They are out of business now. Maybe thats a good thing, least their employees could fine nice safe jobs base jumping at night blind folded...joke lol

First it's treated pine then mdf, next they will be asking your to go log ,mill and treat the stuff yourself...oh yeah mate while your at it, can you deliver it to your own house and send us back the receipt asap.


Some computer workers etc get brian tumours, some ww lose fingers with or without safety devices fitting.

Somethings just are. Despite all the laws or safety guidelines in place. welcome to the real world were no matter how hard you try even with no risk...%hit happens. But some people have massive trouble excepting reality from their pedestals....If it's not in the book of knowledge it's impossible.



HJ0 We live in beautiful world