Dying Everest Climber - What would you have done?

[Two-Words]

Quote:
"Everest deals with trespassers harshly: the dead vanish beneath the snows. While the living struggle to explain what happened. And why. A survivor of the mountain's worst disaster examines the business of Mount Everest and the steep price of ambition."



read this.......

http://outside.away.com/outside/dest...hin_air_1.html

[dazzler]

Hey.

The climbers that passed him by they are just filth. No matter what 20, or so people could have got him down, even if he didnt make it. Need to remember that this lot passed him on the way up:mad: .

It was interesting to see the legless kiwi try to divert any criticism against his party and blame everyone else.

What did they say "sorry mate....gotta reach the summit, paid a lotta cash for this...bad luck buddy"

Lovely way to die, laying under a rock waiting to die as wormless gits trot past.

Humanity starts with each of us.

When I was in East Timor I had the pleasure of having a beer with one of the UNAMET guys who told the story of another aussie who dived on top of his ET interpreter so that he wouldnt get machetted to death by the malitia. Was prepared to die for his new friend.

Would love to know that I had that kind of guts:confused:

Something to aspire to I think.

cheers

dazzler

[Ianab]

I agree Daz.. jumping in front a machette is brave, but he looked at the odds and figured he had a good chance. Sure there was a risk, thats what made him brave, but he figured it was worth the risk. Firemen, surf lifeavers, rescue copter pilots acess the risks every time, but if the odds get too long they pull back.

I wasn't up that Mt, but the guy that died was there overnight in the 'DEAD' zone. If he was part of a party his team could have helped him the previous day, when extra o2 and a shoulder to lean on would have helped. Instead they found a human icicle that they detected some eye movement in...

OK.. if it was me I would have turned round and said 'stuff this I'm going home', but then I'm never going to climb Everest either. Man is just is not supposed to be there.

Cheers

Ian

[Two-Words]

Hey.

The climbers that passed him by they are just filth. No matter what 20, or so people could have got him down, even if he didnt make it. Need to remember that this lot passed him on the way up:mad: .

It was interesting to see the legless kiwi try to divert any criticism against his party and blame everyone else.

What did they say "sorry mate....gotta reach the summit, paid a lotta cash for this...bad luck buddy"

Lovely way to die, laying under a rock waiting to die as wormless gits trot past.

Humanity starts with each of us.

When I was in East Timor I had the pleasure of having a beer with one of the UNAMET guys who told the story of another aussie who dived on top of his ET interpreter so that he wouldnt get machetted to death by the malitia. Was prepared to die for his new friend.

Would love to know that I had that kind of guts:confused:

Something to aspire to I think.

cheers

dazzler

sanctimonious crap

[boban]

Quote:
"Everest deals with trespassers harshly: the dead vanish beneath the snows. While the living struggle to explain what happened. And why. A survivor of the mountain's worst disaster examines the business of Mount Everest and the steep price of ambition."



read this.......

http://outside.away.com/outside/dest...hin_air_1.html

I just spent the last hour or so reading that article. It certainly gives you a different perspective. They are crazy bastards.

[Groggy]

There may be some here who have gone through a baro chamber run. They would confirm that at 20,000 feet most guys are giggling loons and not able to coordinate or think straight. Everest at the peak is over 29,000' (IIRC).

Those who get up there are barely able to move and pushing themselves at their limits with practically zero reserve. 99.9% do so on oxygen that is carefully calculated in quantity to enable them to get there and back - just. To perform extra exertion such as carrying a body (live or dead) would burn through their oxygen at a tremendous rate, putting all of the rescuers at risk.

These guys are at nearly 29000 feet (8800 metres), compare the effects to the table here.

I think that an expectation for people at that altitude to act and think in the same way we do at sea level is overly optimistic. To those who think they would "behave better" in the same circumstances, I can only hope you never find out; as I suspect you will be either disappointed or find yourself in a position that may well kill you.

It is hard to describe how debilitating oxygen deprivation is under heavy exertion. I can say that in a chamber under careful supervision, in peak health, I could not perform simple arithmetic or screw the cap off a bottle. Others in the same test were unable to get their masks back on and had to be assisted by instructors.

[journeyman Mick]

Groggy,
slightly off-topic, but is it similar to nitrogen narcosis? If that's the case then I doubt anyone could say what they would do in the same situation as you are not yourself at all.

Mick
(PS I'd like to think I would stop and comfort the fellow, but then again, like Cliff, I wouldn't be up there. I do stop for accident victims etc but I won't go into a burning building - without breathing apparatus you will die, even if you don't get burnt.)

[Groggy]

Groggy,
slightly off-topic, but is it similar to nitrogen narcosis? If that's the case then I doubt anyone could say what they would do in the same situation as you are not yourself at all.

Mick, there are similarities although NN (I think) puts the person in a euphoric state and they can imagine things. Hypoxia has different effects at different altitudes and durations of exposure, also rates of physical effort and personal resistance. In a nutshell, I'd say they both alter the mind dangerously. NN may perform foolish stunts and hypoxic people may make fatal mistakes easily, such as forgetting to attach a rope.

Mick
(PS I'd like to think I would stop and comfort the fellow, but then again, like Cliff, I wouldn't be up there. I do stop for accident victims etc but I won't go into a burning building - without breathing apparatus you will die, even if you don't get burnt.)

I agree, at sea level there is no question how all of us would behave.

[Ianab]

I think if most of us got placed up near the summit of Everest we would just curl up and die on the spot.. rescuing others would be a moot point as you suffered respiratory collapse :eek:

From Groggy's link

8000m
Faculty	Effect
Visual Skills	Loss of consciousness in approx 4 minutes
Memory	Loss of consciousness in approx 4 minutes
Reaction / Motor Skills	Considerable confusion in approx 2.5 minutes
Personality Change	Loss of consciousness in approx 4 minutes
Perception	Often none until consciousness lost. Otherwise as above

Scarey stuff

[silentC]

Do Sherpas carry oxygen for themselves?

[Metal Head]

Do Sherpas carry oxygen for themselves?

The Sherpas

Lakhpa, Dorjee, Tensing, Nawang, Tashi - you will soon get familiar with these common sherpa names. Often they simply mean the days of the week: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and so on. The guys are conveniently enough named by the day of the week when they were born!.

Some people really glorify the Sherpas as pure, natural and mystical gods of the nature. Others view them as low-cast inhabitants of the third world. The truth is of course that the Sherpas are just like the rest of us; some are good, some are bad, and most are somewhere in between.

Sherpas are the inhabitants of the Khumbu-valley, the national park surrounding Everest. Living at altitude for generations, they have developed a genetic natural allowance for it. If you are well trained yourself, you might find in Kathmandu that the Sherpas do substantially fewer push-ups than you do. Don’t get too excited. Once you go above 3000 meters/10000 ft most of them will easily outrun you. Their natural advantage is strongest up to 8000-meters/23000 ft, there after they too will face problems. Most sherpas will consequently require oxygen above camp 4 in order to perform at their best.

The sherpas are usually happy and easy going. They take great pride in their mountaineering heritage, just as another famous people of Nepal, the Gurkhas, who take pride in their warrior skills.

Since Sherpas are stronger than us at altitude, they are very well suited for alpine style expeditions in the Himalayas. You will need them to carry the oxygen, the gear and as a safety on the summit push. Many "solo" climbers actually bring sherpas with them all the way up. Sherpas are a valuable aid to us, as the climb will be hard enough for you anyway, in not being genetically adapted to that kind of altitude by birth.

To work with Sherpas will require good management on your part and to find the good people to begin with. The trekking agency will recommend Sherpas connected to them. Check if the Sherpa has made the summit and when so (we asked for and were assigned 2 summit Sherpas once, but it was never made clear that they last summited in 1978 and 1982).

It’s also wise to check if the Sherpa is motivated to go for the summit again. Young non-summiteers could be hungry to summit, but lack experience. Summiteers might be content with the higher rank and salary that their summit has already entitled them and not really be motivated to summit again.

Talk to other climbers about the sherpas they liked and try to hire those people. Should you still have to work with Sherpas that you are not familiar with - the most common procedure - remember that the more self sufficient and skilled you are, the less dependent will you be on them. In the end though, if the weather is good and they trust your abilities, they will usually go for the summit, or close enough, with you.
Remember a simple fact: you get what you pay for. Sherpas that are known to perform well (this meaning being responsible and hard working) will require higher salaries than their counterparts.

As you should be careful to save money on the wrong things, you might think this over before you end up with people turning on you when you need them most.
Again, have specified on paper with the trekking agency what you will ask from your staff. Meet with the sherpas in Kathmandu about the very same thing, so that you are all clear on what’s expected. Still though, don’t get surprised if what’s agreed on in Kathmandu will turn different once on the mountain. It comes with the neighborhood and you will simply have to deal with it there and then.
Finally, remember; the sherpas are not your servants. Use them for the important tasks. They speak broken English and are usually not so schooled, but they can think very well for themselves. They will need respect. And - as any staff - motivation along with clear leadership.

Have meetings about the gear, climbing decisions and problem solving. Make sure that you at all times know what’s going on in the expedition; which tents are to be used and where, exactly how much fuel, food and gear is at each camp.
Check the oxygen, regulators and masks together beforehand. Mark everything with each person's name and so on. Don’t leave it all to your Sirdar (Sherpa leader): You are the expedition leader! Only then will you get respect and your decisions will be trusted.

[MurrayD99]

Extensive well-informed comment in The Press (Christchurch) here this morning. Sounds like it might have been an impossible situation. I'm with Cliff - I would not have been there.

[silentC]

Another two have keeled over on the way back - 15 so far this season. Hope it's all worth it.

[Studley 2436]

I have seen a documentary about the climb and thought it would be magnificent to go there one day and photograph in that range. Mind you I have never thought of going to the top. That is a commitment for serious climbers only. I think to make it to the base camp at the foot of the mountain is itself a huge achievement and not to be sneezed at and would present so many great photographic opportunities.

Studley

[dazzler]

sanctimonious crap

A well thought out, balanced view. Congratulations