Wall framing and roof trusses

[mr5point7]

Hi all, great forum!

I was just wondering about noggins. When doing wall construction do they have to be staggered? Does the standards require them to be staggered or can they be all at one level... say 1350mm centre from the bottom plate.

Also, how do you lift prefab roof trusses? I am going to be ordering some roof trusses that span 7.3 metres and am trying to think as to how i am going to lift these things on top of the wall frame (3m high ceilings)...

Thanks in advance.

[boban]

I would like to see you nail the noggins in level. Lots of skew nailing for nothing. The noggins only keep the studs apart at a uniform distance.

Those roof trusses are only babies. You and friend should be able to slide them up over the frame, just make sure the frames are braced properly at the point you want to slide them up.

I've seen people park utes next to the frame to make the lifting easier.

[journeyman Mick]

Maybe I'm obsessive-compulsive or something but I always put my noggins in on a straight line. I reckon it makes for a stiffer wall. With the trusses I used to, if possible, get the crane truck to sit them on top of the walls, with the middle of the truss supported by a centre wall. It's sometimes neccesary to put temporary braces in the walls to cope with the loads. Trusses in cyclonic areas are heavy bloody splintery hardwood buggers and not fun to stand. The last few years I got smart and would just price a crane into the job and didn't mind if I didn't win the job. Then I got really smart and stopped doing them altogether

Mick

[Shannon Nash]

While common sense says to have the nogs close to the middle (top to bottom) of the studs, you ned to consider the plaster sheet width you are using if the wall is to be plastered. The nogs should not be behind/inline with the plasterboard join but away from it so that the join can be best hidden when filler is applied. I read this in a house building text and have built very few walls, perhaps someone can confirm.

Cheers
SN

[echnidna]

I would like to see you nail the noggins in level. Lots of skew nailing for nothing. The noggins only keep the studs apart at a uniform distance.

You need them in a straight line if you're fitting dado panelling etc. Not important with a full plasterboard sheeted wall though.

But you can put them in a straight line without skew nailing.
Put the first noggin in then for the next one just start the nail (say 6mm above the noggin thats already in) on a bit of an angle so it goes through the stud into the end of the noggin on the other side of the stud. Quite easy and fast, specially with a gun but easy nuff with a hammer.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Gotta agree with Bob. Especially with a gun.

We also run 'em at joint height for the plaster sheet... it doesn't make any difference to the joint unless you're nailing without adhesive. The old fashioned way. With adhesive the dabs lift the joint away from the nogs by a few mm anyway. So no problem.

[KeepaTalk]

G'day Mr 5.7

In regards to your noggins I have always been told that a wall over 2.7m needs 2 rows of noggins. So with your 3m walls you would space them at 1m.

I just chalk a line in the required spot and nail the first noggin below the line and then next above then below and so on. This allows you to get your gun in easily. And if your building the wall on the ground no skew nailing should be necessary.

With your trusses if the truck can't lift them on to the walls sliding them up is not that hard but like everyone has said make sure you brace the walls plumb and straight!

Cheers

KeepaTalk

[rod1949]

When I commenced my time (40 years ago this year) I was taught and did/do place noggings all on the same line. Irrespective of the wall height and stud centres, noggings were always at 2' or 600mm centres.

Some of the old tradesmen that I worked with were Scottish and they called noggings "Dwangs".

[kva]

Noggings should be at 1350mm cts maximum, and alternative noggings shouldn't be any further apart than there own depth.

Kane

[julianx]

leave the nogs beside door frames and at the end of walls out till all the frames are up then cut them the right size to straighten the walls and door openings.

[grinner]

Regarding the trusses, me and a few mates managed to lift 8 mtr trusses ourselves. Had a couple walk them up the ladders and a couple on top ready to grab them.

Grinner

[mr5point7]

Thanks for all the replies

I was thinking about installing the noggins from at 1350cts from the bottom plate and 1350cts down from the top plate. I wanted to install the plasterboard horizontally so i don't need to go up and down the ladder to do the 1st and final coats for the plaster.

I would have:

1350mm pb at the bottom
1350mm pb at the top
300mm pb in the middle (cut 1200mm wide pb into 4 sections)

This would mean I would have 2 joins of plaster pretty much in the middle of the wall (saves me using ladders doing the joins vertically)...

What do you think?

I was going to put the noggins all at the same level so all the plasterboard joins have a bit of 'meat' to hold on to... any thoughts?

So there is no such requirement from the BCA to have the noggins staggered?

Oh, the truss... looks like everyone is saying they are pretty easy to lift. I will let you know in a couple of weeks how I go. Unfortunately no crane to lift them in place. The extension is at the back and access to there is a via the 1m side path.

Thanks again.

[mr5point7]

Oh, sorry one more thing....

My extension will be 7m wide and 5.4m long... I was told with the roof trusses that I could use the bottom cords as the ceiling joists. Is this correct?

The trusses are to be placed at 900mm centres. If I use the spacing of the trusses are at 900mm I would need to install ceiling joists between these trusses (therefore 450mm ceiling joist centres)...

If the ceiling joists are spanning 7m wide, do I install hanging beams to support my ceiling joists? It seems a fair distance...

Thanks

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

This would mean I would have 2 joins of plaster pretty much in the middle of the wall (saves me using ladders doing the joins vertically)...

If you're using Gyprock, you'll notice that it has rebated edges to help conceal the joints. With a 300mm filler like you describe, at best only one edge of the filler will have this rebate, making concealment that much harder. Also, at any height between around 900mm and 2.4m height any dips or lumps in the joint (or plaster) will be readily noticed; that's where people look in day to day living. Having two joints there doubles the problem... :eek:

Personally, I'd be more inclined to put the filler at the bottom... so that even if the lack of a rebate makes a less than perfect joint it'll be less obvious. You'd be surprised how few people see what's at their feet.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

My extension will be 7m wide and 5.4m long... I was told with the roof trusses that I could use the bottom cords as the ceiling joists. Is this correct?

True, given suitable spacing of joists.

The trusses are to be placed at 900mm centres. If I use the spacing of the trusses are at 900mm I would need to install ceiling joists between these trusses (therefore 450mm ceiling joist centres)...

If the ceiling joists are spanning 7m wide, do I install hanging beams to support my ceiling joists? It seems a fair distance...

You can buy battens, like an aluminium c-channel, spans upto 1.2m Screw these across the joists (Hollow side UP!) at whatever spacing suits your plaster. Screw the plaster to these battens, using dabs of adhesive the same as you would for walls but a bit more frequently. Like, every 12-18" so along the batten.

Of course, this means you have to rethink your cutting plans, 'cos the plaster joints'll be running 90° to how you'd planned...