View Poll Results: Square the mortice or round the tenon?

Voters
38. You may not vote on this poll
  • Square the mortice

    13 34.21%
  • Round the tenon

    22 57.89%
  • What's a mortice?

    3 7.89%
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,981

    Default Square the mortices or round the tenons?

    I can't remember if we've already had this poll, apologies if we have (basically I can't be asred doing a search ).

    Anyway, when cutting mortices with a router do you round the tenon or square the mortice?

    Myself, I square the mortice.

    I don't really know why other than I just like squared mortices. Even if it is more work than rounding the tenon.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lost in Space
    Age
    54
    Posts
    0

    Default

    Yer I square the mortise to.......................A traditional mortise and tenon fit squarely is the strongest joint of this type.

    REgards Lou
    Just Do The Best You Can With What You HAve At The Time

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Elimbah, QLD
    Posts
    437

    Default

    The easiest way is to make the tenon octagonal, i.e. the two cheeks and three narrow edges at either end. This is very quick to do, and has the advantage of allowing excess glue to escape. That is, if I am not using floating tenons, in which case, I round over the tenon stock on the router table and then cut it to length. Theoretically, a square ended tenon would be marginally stronger; but I don't think this makes any difference in practice.

    Rocker

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lost in Space
    Age
    54
    Posts
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker

    but I don't think this makes any difference in practice.

    Rocker
    Gidday Rocker

    In practice this makes a considerable difference. A squared mortise and Tenon joint that fits snugly is considerably stronger than the kinds of hybrid/Short-Cut joints you have listed.

    If its strength your after then a traditional mortise and tenon joint is the GO! Fine Woodworking MAgazine stress tested rounded mortise and tenons champhored tenons in a round mortise loose tenons and traditional M&T's.

    Under stress testing traditional M&T joinery proved significantly stronger. All the other joint types failed well before the traditional M&T's. Much to the suprise of the testers I might add.

    REgards Lou
    Just Do The Best You Can With What You HAve At The Time

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Age
    77
    Posts
    884

    Default

    I voted for Round the tenon because, on those rare occasions when I use a router to cut a mortice, the quickest result is the obvious choice.

    I rarely use a router to cut a mortice, however, because I find either a judicious use of the drill press or a swift bash with a chisel and mallet does the job. Rounding the tenon is also the obvious choice after cutting the mortice with the drill press.

    Col
    Driver of the Forums
    Lord of the Manor of Upper Legover

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker

    That is, if I am not using floating tenons, in which case, I round over the tenon stock on the router table and then cut it to length. Theoretically, a square ended tenon would be marginally stronger; but I don't think this makes any difference in practice.

    Rocker
    Agree 100% I use floating tenons that are router rounded, and as Rocker pointed out in practice (real world day to day practice) the difference would be so slight it wouldnt matter. In 3 weeks ill have my new Domino and rounded loose tenons will be all ill be using

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Elimbah, QLD
    Posts
    437

    Default

    NewLou,

    I would not argue with you, or with FW for that matter. I merely maintain that it is rarely necessary for the joint to have the maximum possible theoretical strength; and that, if a rounded or chamfered tenon has only, say, 85% of the strength of a square one, it is normally speaking still plenty strong enough for its purpose.

    Rocker

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lost in Space
    Age
    54
    Posts
    0

    Default

    Rocker

    Totally agree if the joinery is there simply for looks its a no brainer. However if the joinery is being used for a WorkBench or the like where Constant stress is a consideration Then the strongest joint I can use is my preference.

    Even then I'm inclined to reinforce it with pocket holes or my own epoxy castings! (But thats just me)

    REgardless It is interesting to have some kind of reference point in regards to the structural integrity of this kind of joinery........suprisingly the difference is significant

    REgards Lou
    Just Do The Best You Can With What You HAve At The Time

  9. #9

    Default

    Lou what is the FWW issue you have? I have FWW No 111 PG: 59 all about joint strength, and its surprising. These are cabinet doors and both loose tenon and mortice and tenon and under 1,200 psi started to open and snaped at 2,700psi and the surprise was two and three biscuits, the gap started at 1,700psi and snapped at 2,800 psi for the twin bisc and 3,000 for the tripple. So biscuits are the strongest for doors acording to that article

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lost in Space
    Age
    54
    Posts
    0

    Default

    Lig

    I was reading up about joinery on the FineWoodworkingNetwork for my workbench. I'll see If i can find the article again. In this particular test I'm pretty sure that the Biscuits proved the weakest type of joinery. IF interested I'll dig it up again and get some test specs

    .....................Is always interesting for future reference.

    From Fine Woodworking #148

    TRADITIONAL TENON

    Strength: Superior
    RAte of Failure: Gradual
    Strength after failure: Superior
    Rigidity: Very stiff

    Round Edged Floating Tenon

    Strength: Excellent
    RAte of Failure: Gradual
    Strength after failure: Excellent
    Rigidity: Stiff

    Straight Edged Floating Tenon

    Strength: Excellent
    RAte of Failure: Abrupt
    Strength after failure: Excellent
    Rigidity: stiff

    Twin #20 Biscuits

    Strength: Good
    RAte of Failure: Gradual
    Strength after failure: Good
    Rigidity: Moderate

    This is a great little summary of the outcomes

    REgards Lou
    Just Do The Best You Can With What You HAve At The Time

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    54
    Posts
    891

    Default

    Round the tenon cos I do it my way
    Visit my website at www.myFineWoodWork.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Romsey Victoria
    Age
    63
    Posts
    2,102

    Default

    I do it Wongo's way.
    Photo Gallery

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Oberon, NSW
    Age
    64
    Posts
    0

    Default

    Like driver and for basically the same reasons, I round the tenon. I'll also start the mortice using a bit'n'brace with a squaring jig if I'm feeling a tad darkside... besides the chisel, that's about as darkside as I want to get, too... Oh, for a powered morticer!
    I may be weird, but I'm saving up to become eccentric.

    - Andy Mc

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    59
    Posts
    5,026

    Default

    Totally agree if the joinery is there simply for looks its a no brainer.
    How can a mortice and tenon be there simply for looks? You can't see it!!

    I usually round the tenon if it's a mortice cut with the router. Have squared the mortice in the past when I'm being fussy.

    I recall the results of another one of those 'tests'. They were specifically testing doors. The biscuit join was the strongest but it failed suddenly and completely. The mortice and tenon failed sooner but it hung together for longer.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Over there a bit
    Age
    17
    Posts
    503

    Default

    I'm a round tenon.
    Boring signature time again!

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •