What goes on first sealer or stain?

[soundman]

You will probably have problems in this case because both the stain & the sealer & the top coat (if you are using shelac) are based on the same solvent and all of the products cure by drying out rathers than polermerising.

[Neil]

Look out I'm back. Firstly it is always best to use a stain that has a solvent that is incompatible with the finish.
ie: Use water or turpentine based stain with alcohol based finish. Alcohol or turps based stain with water based finish and water or alcohol with a turps or oil based finish, although the latter isn't quite as critical as the others because bleeding of the stain isn't anywhere as noticeable.

Secondly. I was talking about water based DYE not stain. Water based stain although not readily available here is reasonably easy to use, where water based DYE requires a little more expertise or practice and is much harder to come by, even though we supply it, we only do so in small quantities with the idea of it being used under shellawax for lathe work not for large pieces of furniture.

Finally the sanding sealer I say water dye can be used over is OUR sanding sealer which is based on dewaxed shellac and will allow for full penetration of even water dye into the timber. Do not try this over any other commercial sanding sealer as most all are designed as a grain filler and will not allow the stain or dye to penetrate and adhere to the timber as they should.

There are a number of exceptions and a heap of variations to the above and most are used solely by tradies who know their business inside out. Some are used by amateurs who aren't afraid to experiment.

Those are the ones that get the better finishes. Never be afraid to experiment. Just don't do it on the finished article.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers - Neil

PS I will happily sand up to 600 or even 800 grit before applying the first coat of any finish. Which is usually our Sanding Sealer or water, to raise the grain. Then I will sand lightly with either 800 or 1200 grit to cut back any raised grain before applying the first true coat of finish what ever it may be.

[Knurl]

Fascinated by this discussion about sealers and stains...and learning a lot!

Having just built my new shed and coming back to my old hobby after a long lay-off I realise that I need to study up.

1. I have seen some beautiful woodwork that displays the grain and feels like silk to the touch. Where can I find some useful links about choosing finishes, application techniques and finishing?
2. How the heck can you tell if shellac is on an item of furniture? Or for that matter how do you recognise any treatment. I have to repair nested coffee tables that the puppy chewed (serious damage to the legs). I suspect it's finished with shellac and that's mainly because it's about 1960 vintage, dark brown in colour and sands quickly to clear timber (a very soft white coloured timber, but definitely not pine).

Help will be appreciated. Can get pics if it helps.

[Kev Y.]

instead of resurecting this old thread, why not start a new one and show us your project attached to that one.

[Knurl]

Ta Brudda, I'll do that soon...look for a new thread!

[bennylaird]

I just apply a bit of sanding sealer to the end grain with my finger, quick sand and the apply the stain. Don't use it (SS) anywhere else.

[Ray J]

I don't want to stain. I just want to fill/seal Spalted Bech.

Do I use a sanding filler, or do I sand with the finishing oil a few times before finishing.

Ray