Stainless steel splashback

[Para]

Hi everyone, I am amazed to see something like this exists and people actually reply! I hope someone replies to this.

Anyhow, I am one of those new DIY-ers with limited cash and grand plans.

I really want to put stainless steel splash backs in the kitchen, but the kitchen people charge a lot to do just a splash back.

Does anyone know how I can get my hands on the steel (and get it cut). That done, any ideas or tips on how to install it? We've been told that we can't tile it. We rendered the wall ourselves, and it was a tad uneven. So to make it look decent until we tiled/splash-backed, we painted the wall. THEN we found out that tiles don't stick to painted, uneven walls.

Actually, if anyone knows where I can get glass splashbacks cut & how to install, that would be good too.

Thanks to anyone who reads or replies,

cheers
Para

[Baz]

Para, not sure about this but I think Lamiex or Formica might have a stainlees steel finish to their products, if so that would be a lot cheaper and easier to fix.
Cheers
Barry

[Sir Stinkalot]

We looked into glass splashbacks .... very classy finish and well worth the money ... but the money is where the problem is ... You cant really do it yourself ... the more cuts and turns that there are the higher the cost .... to give you an idea it starts at around $330m2 for the first m2 and then still stays around $300m2 after that. Extra cost for cuts and powerpoints. These prices were current as of around 18 months ago but I don't think it would have changes much. They seem to be more popular now than stainless steel as they are much easier to keep clean, and can be produced in a range of colours. I find that stainless are looking dated now and I wouldn't do it myself. Why not just add some fc sheet over the wall and then tile .... that is easy ... I did it myself after asking many questions on this board, try doing a search for kitchen splashbacks.

Cheers

Stinky.

Oh yeah welcome to the board .. the hard thing is leaving.

[journeyman Mick]

Para, Laminex does make a laminate with a thin foil of brushed stainless steel but it costs more per M2 than SS sheet.
Go to a sheet metal shop with all your measurements, make a template of any corners that are not 90 deg. Get them to fold a small joggle along the top edge( a fold about 5mm down from the top at about 10deg) This will stiffen the top edge to keep it straight plus will push against your render and give you an edge to apply a bead of sealant to. You haven't specified what your benchtop is made of and how you wish to finish this junction. I usually only do SS splashbacks as part of a SS top so there is no seam here. Some rip a saw kerf into the back edge of the top and seal the SS into this but I believe it's unneccesary and possibly more prone to future problems. I would be inclined to put a joggle on the bottom edge as well and use a polyurethane sealant. I would be fixing the stainless to the wall using either Bostik Matrix or Sikaflex 295. Do a dry run first to make sure everything fits. Cut lots of toms (props) out of 19 x 19 timber so you can push the SS against the wall from the opposite wall. If the opposite wall is too far away you may have to put concrete blocks on your tops and tom off them.
Apply blobs of liquid nails or similar to the wall, push your SS in place then peel back. Apply copious amounts of the sealant/adhesive to the wall in the form of beads about 5mm dia., larger if your wall is really uneven. Then push the SS into position. The liquid nails will act as a contact adhesive to hold the SS in place while the Sika or Matrix goes off.
SS is not expensive if you are just getting it cut and pressed into spashbacks but there is a lot of labour and cost involved in welding it and then grinding and buffing the weld so that it is invisible. Glass splashbacks are horrendously expensive and there is a long lead time involved as it must be tempered glass.
Off course you could always take to the walls with an angle grinder and a diamond blade to roughen it right up so the tiles will stick. You will have to butter the tiles generously with adhesive and spend a bit of time with a long stright edge getting it all in the one plane but it's certainly possible. Whichever way you end up going take plenty of time, because contrary to what all these home improvement shows preach you can have a quick job or you can have a good job.

Mick

[soundman]

If you are tight for cash with limited resources might i sugest common or garden laminated board.

makes a great splash back is easier to clean than tiles and works with normal tools.

stay with the standard colour range as the specialty laminates are realy expensive.

[journeyman Mick]

Soundman, if by laminated board you mean MDF or HMR with a melamine coating or MDF, HMR or ply with a laminate applied none of these are very permanent or waterproof and I haven't seen them used as splashbacks for at least 5 years, certainly not on any government jobs. Lamipanel (a 4mm thick laminate) is waterproof and comes in a range of colours, however its price keeps creeping up and I think its around $50 per M2 now.

Mick

[George]

I have also been looking into splashback options for my kitchen. The quote for glass took my breath away.

I approached a specialist stainless steel merchant who recommended I provide them with a backer board of 6-9mm HMR MDF cut to exact size. They will apply the SS to the backer board. I will then glue the board to the wall.

My wall surface (gyprock) will be a bit damaged because I have to knock the existing tiles off. In this situation I think I will get a better result using a backer board than trying to stick the SS straight onto the wall.

George

[journeyman Mick]

Using a backing board is fine, but I would recommend ply rather than MDF or particleboard - unless of course you just want to "tart" the place up before selling it. IMHO MDF and particleboard are only good for jigs and templates. The melamine coated stuff is okay for carcasses but that's about it.

Mick

[Para]

Wow! I wasn't expecting such quick responses.

All the info is comforting as well as a little overwhelming. Thanks Mick for the step by step guide to installing SS.

I think I'll have to do a bit of research to see whether to install a sheet of SS by itself or with a board backing. Might have another look at the price of glass too.

Thanks again, and happy building/renovating to you all.

Para

[soundman]

Seeing as standard laminate over a hmr chip or hmr mdf is the common kitchen bench top I dont see any problem using it as a splash back as long as the seam and the top edge are properly sealed.
in fact this is very common practise.

afterall the sink is cut directly into such a surface and water may lay on a horisontal.

afterall we have been discussing stainless over chip of mdf.

for all intents & purposes laminate should be as impervious as stainless.

If we were talking commercial or permanent wet area applications the matter would be different.

[journeyman Mick]

Soundman, I have fitted literally hundreds of kitchens and the reason most of these kitchens were being replaced was failure due to water damage. If you make a splashback from any type of reconstituted board product and cover it with whatever you like it WILL fail. The problem is not what you have surfaced it with, laminate, stainless steel or glass, but the fact that when you fit a splashback it sits on top of the bench. Water will work its way through the seam and suck up into the backing by capilliary action. It doesn't matter what type of sealant you use and how well you apply it, it WILL happen. The other problem is the method of bonding. When laminate is glued to benchtops it is run through nip rollers which exert huge amounts of pressure to ensure a good bond, free of any voids. Stainless is usually bonded using epoxy and some weights to hold it in place. While it results in a sound stable surface there will be voids in the glue. Water has a wonderful way of finding its way in through capilliary action and will have pretty disastrous effects on mdf or particleboard. If you think that raw mdf or particleboard would make as good a substrate as ply try this simple test: get equal sized offcuts of all three materials, measure thickness with verniers, wet with equal amounts of water, wait a week or two, measure again. I have placed sweaty palm prints on mdf and found perfect raised palm prints on the mdf a week later. It's pretty pointless going to the trouble and expense of fitting stainless splashbacks by gluing them to a substrate that acts like a sponge.

Mick

[OBG]

Gday all.

First time on so be nice.
We just had our SSteal spashback installed and it was on compressed concrete sheeting or what ever they call it (like fibro).
Hope that helps


Ps i hate it cause its horible to keep clean wish we went glass.

[soundman]

I am well aware of the biodegradable nature of chipboard & mdf but lets face it most modern kitchens are lowest quote items intended to last 5 to seven years.
If we were serious about building a kitchen to last we would not be using the cheap manufactured boards.
If we were in a commercial application the bench top would be all stainless.

of the failed laminate splasbacks you have seen how many.

Had the edge grain properly sealed prior to installation.

were genuine hmr product.

were properly bedded on quality sealant at the time of fixing and not just sealed after.

were not in a situation where failure had occure elsewere in the job also

I doo agree that lamipanel or similar would be a better product but it comes in a very limited colour range.

[journeyman Mick]

Originally posted by soundman

of the failed laminate splasbacks you have seen how many.

at least 100

Had the edge grain properly sealed prior to installation.

hard to tell as was degraded

were genuine hmr product.

it's not possible to buy non HMR product in NQ

were properly bedded on quality sealant at the time of fixing and not just sealed after.

Again, hard to tell, but it doesn't matter how well the sealant is applied, it will eventually leak. I also do a fair bit of shipwrighting work, and granted there is a lot of vibration and other stress on sealant joints on a boat, but everything leaks eventually.

were not in a situation where failure had occure elsewere in the job also

none were being replaced solely because of a failed splashback

I doo agree that lamipanel or similar would be a better product but it comes in a very limited colour range.

It comes in 31 colours and if that's not enough can be made to order in any of the colours or patterns of the laminex range.

The point is that I'm sure if Para wanted to do just a "cheapest quote item intended to last 5 - 7 years" type kitchen, he would just be slapping it up any old how. I assumed that Para wanted information on how to achieve a quality job. Quality meaning best practice, best value for money, not neccesarily most expensive materials. BTW isn't it telling that even the lower end of the range project builders won't have splashbacks made of laminate on ply/mdf/particleboard in their houses?

Mick

[peter mikk]

re ss splash back, if the wall is as uneven as you say, i would definatly go for a backing board, without a backing board on an uneven wall you will see all of this uneveness if you glue the ss to the wall, having a backing board you can use a thin 0.6mm sheet, around $50m2 cut to size. i use contact gel with ss, just roughen the surface up with a disc sander, careful not to put much heat into it.

re glass, make a template get a glass man to cut it, cheap, now to make it look good, use a clear etch primer followed by your colour of choice, use auto paint. and glue the thing to the wall.
ps. paint on the back. as the whole glass is glued to the wall, toughening is not necassery, if you use those ss glass fastners you need holes you have to toughen, and the price goes up,