Spirit based Stain then lacquer...

[fanlee]

Hi.

I'm testing on scrap and have nailed the colour with a combination of Feast Watson Prooftints direct onto the timber.

I'm planning to build up to a gloss finish using UBeaut white shellac and hard shellac.

Will the application of white shellac over the stained timber cause any of the spirit based stain to partition from the timber into the shellac and wreck my colour?

What are the necessary conditions for me to take this approach if it's possible?

TIA

RobSm

[Ashore]

Mate when you accidently put two identical posts on you have the option of going to the bottom rt hand corner and click on edit on one of them and delete it , makes life easy all round


Rgds

[fanlee]

Sorry...I didn't see my blunder...

Any thoughts on the spirit stain shellac question?

TIA.

[rsser]

I'm an amateur at this but as far as I know shellac will bleed a solvent-based stain. You need a water-based stain if you want a shellac finish.

[Auld Bassoon]

Rsser's comments may be generally true (not sure, frankly!), but with Black Japan, for example, the manufacturers recommend a shellac coasting to inhibit the Japan bleeding into the final finish coat...

My suggestion would be to try any combination for any given project on some scrap of the same timber as that project, and planed, scraped, sanded, whatever, in an identical manner.

I have a slowly building 'library' of different stains (water, oil, etc), oils (Danish, Tung-based, etc) and finishes (shellac, poly, floorseal, etc). Similarly I have a range of samle timber types and different colour stains and dyes.

[Sturdee]

Will the application of white shellac over the stained timber cause any of the spirit based stain to partition from the timber into the shellac and wreck my colour?

I'm not familiar with the stains you are using but ain't Feast Watson Prooftints oil based stains not spirit ( meaning Metho ) stains.

The metho in shellac will dilute spirit ( metho based ) stains so you apply a darker metho based stain to compensate for this action. As Steve says practice on scrap first.

BTW why are you using white shellac followed with hard shellac. Normally you use one or the other. Get the Polisher's handbook from Ubeaut and most of the questions will be answered.

Peter.

[fanlee]

Feast Watson describe Prooftint stains as spirit based on their web site...That's what I'm going on.

It does dissolve well in shellac as I have tested this but not got the colour I was after. Looks good, but not the colour.

I'm sure I read in the Handbook..(which is temporarily mislaid due to near evacuation because of bushfires..(Merimbula last weekend))..that the first coat should be white shellac & the hard shellac thereafter.

I'll keep searching for the handbook but at times I find things a little on the general side.

The water based stains look good as well but again I didn't produce the colour I was after, whereas the Prooftints did.

LOL....more testing. I'm, lucky to have a fair bit of scrap!!

[RETIRED]

Feast Watson describe Prooftint stains as spirit based on their web site...That's what I'm going on.

It does dissolve well in shellac as I have tested this but not got the colour I was after. Looks good, but not the colour.

I'm sure I read in the Handbook..(which is temporarily mislaid due to near evacuation because of bushfires..(Merimbula last weekend))..that the first coat should be white shellac & the hard shellac thereafter.

I'll keep searching for the handbook but at times I find things a little on the general side.

The water based stains look good as well but again I didn't produce the colour I was after, whereas the Prooftints did.

LOL....more testing. I'm, lucky to have a fair bit of scrap!!

Nice to see you have your priorities right in what to take in the event of an emergency.

[Sturdee]

Feast Watson describe Prooftint stains as spirit based on their web site...That's what I'm going on.

It does dissolve well in shellac as I have tested this but not got the colour I was after. Looks good, but not the colour.

As it appears to use metho as the solvent applying the first couple quick brush coats of shellac may, but not necessarily will, lighten the colour of your stain.

If this happens you can apply a new coat of the stain over the shellac to darken it and again appy some brush coats of shellac to seal it. If it gets too dark you can wipe it back with metho and rag before it is completely dry.

I have had to apply 5 coats of stain and 9 coats of shellac to a couple pieces of furniture before french polishing to match existing furniture. It was 2 stains, a few coats of shellac, stain, two coats of shellac, stain, two coats of shellac, stain, two coats of shellac before I was satisfied.

The fun is in the practicing on scrap until it is perfect.

Peter.
Peter.

[Harry72]

Could you lightly tint the shellac with stain and get away with it?

[Sturdee]

You could Harry, but you have better control over the final colour doing it separately.

I have seen a side table being french polished with black polish after initial staining but it was very difficult to get a perfect finish. Would have been easier to paint it black and, when cured, french polished for a perfect finish.


Peter.