Am I being Pedantic, a PITA or just Getting old and Grump[ier]

[DanP]

Really, who gives a f#ck. Beware the return of the spelling/grammar nazis.

[Grunt]

From the Compact Oxford English Dictionary:



My original post was a reference to puppyboy's professed dislike of American English.

So there.

Gotten is in the Macquarie dictionary as proper word, not a a colloquialism. In my book the Macquarie is the definitive reference for Australian English.

[craigb]

I don't care, they are wrong.

What does gotten provide that got doesn't ?

I would have expected better than that from the Macquarie frankly.

Does it have dove as the past tense of dive too?

[silentC]

Actually, I think you will find that the Macquarie's charter is to provide a description of modern Australian word usage, not to be the arbiter of what is right and wrong.

This is the problem we face because like it or not, over time a common error becomes entrenched in the language and thus it changes. For example, contractions like "don't" are perfectly acceptable today but I bet there was some knuckle rapping that went on when it first started to become popular.

[Grunt]

Actually, I think you will find that the Macquarie's charter is to provide a description of modern Australian word usage, not to be the arbiter of what is right and wrong.

Youse is in the 4th edition as a colloquialism. It's in common use and thus becomes part of the Australian vernacular. It would not be an acceptable word in formal writing. Gotten however is.

How about 'ill gotten gains'? Hard to justify saying 'ill got gains'.

[craigb]

How about 'ill gotten gains'? Hard to justify saying 'ill got gains'.

Why?

[E. maculata]

Has Grunt gotten his point across yet?
Fer once I'm with the hound, evolve you buggas or be extinct .

[Grunt]

Why?

For a start 'ill got' isn't in the Oxford dictionary but ill gotten is.

'ill got gains' sounds like a Cockney would say it. Thos', ill got gains, eh Gov?

[craigb]

Has Grunt gotten his point across yet?
Fer once I'm with the hound, evolve you buggas or be extinct .

Nope. You won't convince me that the past tense of get is gotten.

It's not eveloution it's illiteracy.

[Grunt]

T-rex = Dinosaur

[bitingmidge]

What does gotten provide that got doesn't ?

You would of gotten a greenie for that if I could of given it to you.

As for Dan asking what does it matter?? One of the reasons we have policemen is to reinforce boundaries of behaviour that society deems acceptable.

By nature we need boundaries to either push or live within.

If we had no rules or conventions with language, we would all be speaking differently, and would not be able to communicate at all.

One of the marvels of language is that it is always evolving. I have no issues with those who are ignorant of the rules our who just don't get them (those with poor spelling for instance) getting the occasional word wrong, but to turn an adverb into an adjective by adding the suffix "izational" or to create a whole new term "negative growth" when there is already a perfectly good suite of words that serve the purpose is an affront to anyone who thinks seriously about the language.

Surely we are not making it simpler by creating new words?

For the record, "gotten" is indeed the past participle of "get" from Middle English, yet even in North American usage they have different meanings. Gotten usually emplies the process of obtaining something "ill-gotten gains" while got implies a state of possession or ownership.

Cheers,

P (who is fascinated by this stuff and must read more!)

[craigb]

For a start 'ill got' isn't in the Oxford dictionary but ill gotten is.

'ill got gains' sounds like a Cockney would say it. Thos', ill got gains, eh Gov?

I'll accept that the only time that gotten is correct is in the phrase ill gotten.

That doesn't mean and never will that the past tense of get is gotten.
It may be in common use in America but we don't speak American English here. Which was how this started in the first place.

I still would think that gains could be "ill got". Shakespear probably used it.

[silentC]

I still would think that gains could be "ill got".

Do a Google. People do use it.

get got give gave giving given

It all sounds like nonsense after awhile if you say it over and over.

My 6yo daughter has developed a habit of saying 'caughten' instead of caught. Makes sense to her She'd probably say 'gotten' too but then she doesn't know any better.

[Wongo]

May I introduce you our new English language consultant.

Sorry little Britain is a big thing in the house at the moment.

[Grunt]

Jive,
De English language be a livin' language

Sweedish English
Zee Ingleesh lungooege-a is a leefing lungooege-a

This whole discussion has gotten out of hand.