NSW Racial tension.............

[Greg Ward]

I agree the media had much to do with yesterday, but the problem has existed for years.
The tribal history of beaches in Sydney is ongoing. The 'westies' were the enemies of the surfies in the past, so little has changed.

When the Chinese, Greeks and Italians first ventured here, they were reviled and killed in some cases.

The real problem is the 'fear of the other' which can only be addressed through education and social mixing, best done at school with the children as first generations are too stuck in their ways. This should be a state aim, but the increased prevalance of single religous based schools will sadly make integration even more problematic.

The media loves the beat-up and ferments this, with the ABC being just as bad as the others, perhaps worse as they pretend to be 'for all Australians' when they stand for 'those of left wing inclination that tend to think like we do'.

It has taken the Chinese around 5-6 generations to reach its current state of social integration following the immigration of large numbers following the finding of gold in the 1850's, the Italians and Greeks are reaching the 3-4th ........the NSW state premier is Italian, our Governor is Lebanese.

Hopefully as time passes and the recent arrivals of African,'middle eastern' Vietnamese and eastern European immigrants reach that important third generation stage, that generation will also feel at home here as well as remaining proud of their long cultural histories.

My family history? German, British, Irish, Chinese, Swedish..... who knows what else and who cares.
With around 5-6 generations under my belt, I have no real feeling for my ancestry. It's Australian.

Regards
Greg

[silentC]

The real problem is the 'fear of the other' which can only be addressed through education and social mixing, best done at school with the children as first generations are too stuck in their ways. This should be a state aim, but the increased prevalance of single religous based schools will sadly make integration even more problematic.

OK now you're making sense. Definitely - social mixing so that we can understand each other, not assimilation so that the one becomes the other.

[AlexS]

I agree the media had much to do with yesterday, but the problem has existed for years.
The tribal history of beaches in Sydney is ongoing. The 'westies' were the enemies of the surfies in the past, so little has changed.

Too true

I'm an anglo, but grew up 40-50 years ago in the area where many of the 'people of middle eastern appearance' live now. We used to go to Cronulla because it was handy to get to by rail. Even then, there was a small group of locals who thought they owned the beach and would look for a blue with outsiders. Fast forward a couple of decades and the sons & grandsons of these nongs try the same stunt on some other nongs who identify themselves as a particular ethnic group that's not afraid of a fight, add a bit of alchohol, and what do you expect.

The whole time this has been going on, the police have done nothing to stop the bullying & anti-social behaviour that's been going on by both sides, until it grew to big to ignore. I'm not sure whether it's because they were under-resourced, lazy or subject to political pressure to keep it under their hats, but I suspect that it's a mixture of all three. Sooner or later, someone inevitably says, perhaps with some justification, if the police/government won't look after our safety, we'll do it ourselves.

[silentC]

The fact of the matter is that the police are afraid of dealing with the Lebanese gangs. I lived in the Bankstown area for 6 years and have seen it first hand. They are not pleasant and the police do not frighten them one bit. A copper mate of mine had his name removed from the electoral roll after a death threat from one of them.

The problem with what happened yesterday is that the behaviour of all those idiots on the beach overwhelms the underlying problem. There is a criminal element at work in those gangs: the gang rapes, drug pushing, theft etc. It's all a real problem. It has nothing to do with race, they are just bad people.

Yesterday's events just give people like Keysar Trad the excuse to say "look, it's not our problem. You're kids are racists, deal with them. Another example of discrimination against the muslim community". Instead of saying "OK, we have a problem with gangs in the Lebanese community and we need to deal with it" it once again becomes 'our' problem.

I repeat, these are bad people, not victims. I don't have any sympathy for anything that might happen to them.

The sad part is that all the rest have to suffer as well. I wonder how many of the people that were chased and beaten yesterday were just ordinary people like you and me wanting to go for a swim. That's the bad bit. I feel sorry for them and I can understand them being p!ssed off with 'Aussies'.

[Termite]

My only comment is that this situation has been brewing for quite a while for a variety of reasons. What's the cure.....I don't know.

All I know is it scares the crap out of me.

[dazzler]

The Media done it!

The filthy swine media played everyone for suckers. They get told about a stupid sms from stupid people, fed it to the public so it grew a thousand fold, more stupid people tell more stupid people and stupid politicians and stupid police get on the stupid television and give it more publicity so that even more stupid people get involved.

Then the filthy media turn up, insight the stupid people to do stupid things, report it so that the other lot of stupid people who respond and the filthy media have thier stupid story.

Then the next day, after all the stupid people have made the stupid story the filthy media go back, tut tutting away about how bad the stupid people are.:mad:

I think this was really




S T U P I D!

[Toolin Around]

Greg, have a look at the blatant lies being told by the media, the selective reporting, the images carefully cropped and the images used out of context, then tell me again it is a little "naive".

The integration talk is rubbish by the way. Italians, Greeks, Asians, Brits, Slavs and just about every ethnic group have had problems at some point. The difference here is the concerns surrounding recent terrorism problems and the portrayal and hype surrounding them that the media delights in.

Channel 'X' recently showed footage of a muslim youth stating "we will never integrate into Australia". This caused some uproar and was offensive when seen on tv. However, the complete statement was (to the effect of) "we will never integrate into Australia while these barriers exist". He was, in fact, referring to the difficulties of Muslim youths integrating when facing prejudice from "white" Australians. The full interview showed the youth as intelligent and thoughtful, Channel X cut it in a manner that should be a criminal act.

This happens every night, and the focus is on ratings for advertising. There is no responsible reporting here anymore, and it is becoming a problem. The ABC and SBS are better, though they often err too.

I agree. I think that instead of refering to them as the media or journalists... a more appropriate word(s) in this day and age would be smut peddlers. Keeping you informed is the last thing they are trying to achieve.

[Studley 2436]

I wonder what was going on on talk back radio. If it was bad on TV I can only imagine the mess of accusation on talk back.

The mob was anglo Australian. I am not sure how many Lebanese were involved but it sounds as if they were massively outnumbered. Some were just people who were in Cronulla to work in cafés or because they wanted to swim and enjoy the beach.

Violent miscreants deserve to be charged and jailed. Decent people of any background should be able to go about their lawful business.

It was during 1999 when I was living in Sydney that a Lebanese mate took me out to a night club for a drink. It was in Hurstville he introduced me to his brother, brothers girlfriend and one other. They basically turned their backs on me. All my ancestors were from England and that was in the very early days of the South Australian colony so it was a new thing to me being judged on race. However in the past I have met many people with different backgrounds and having an introduction always meant that they were prepared to find out who you were and something about you. Actually it usually was a case of this guy is prepared to talk to us let's make him welcome. Italians in particular are good at making people feel really welcome.

My point in saying all that is that I think there is some greater division for whatever reason than I have seen or experienced with other immigrants Asian or European.

I do believe in integration in the sense that this is Australia and these are the rules here. Such as the rule of law, respect for property, basic respect and courtesy for others. You can worship your god in your way but everyone else is also free to make their own decision about their god and their own worship. No one has the right to impose their view of god or religion or politics on anyone else. The rule of law stands above religion however, in that you can't break the law because your religion says you can.

Studley

[channa]

The real problem is the 'fear of the other'...

Another problem is a love to hate. Some people love to hate, love an excuse to hurt other people - usually from a position of power, ie surrounded by mates, or even just being bigger than the people they pick on. As a student I was attacked in the street by a group of young men out for a good time, and to them that meant finding someone alone, and beating them up. I still can't understand it.

As for religion, religion doesn't have anything to answer for. It is the people who use it as a banner to justify their own opinions and actions that should be held responsible. (A bit like money - money per se is not evil (in fact I quite like money, when I can get it ), it is the love of money above respect for others that is evil).

I also agree that there is a "fear of the other" or a "fear of the unknown" that motivates some people. Labelling people, eg "He's a Seppo", dehumanises them, makes them more like an object (he's just a table) than a person (with a name, and a family, "he's john milosevic smith, brian's brother") and therefore easier to treat with disrespect or disdain.

The media do tend to sensationalise things and the problem is that the only information we get is prescreened by them, so we really have no idea what to compare it with.

Good stuff about the laws here Studley

[RETIRED]

I do believe in integration in the sense that this is Australia and these are the rules here. Such as the rule of law, respect for property, basic respect and courtesy for others. You can worship your god in your way but everyone else is also free to make their own decision about their god and their own worship. No one has the right to impose their view of god or religion or politics on anyone else. The rule of law stands above religion however, in that you can't break the law because your religion says you can.

Hoobloodyray. Well said. Sorta like this board.

[E. maculata]

Hoobloodyray. Well said. Sorta like this board.

Just wadda ya tryin to say there big fella?

[46150]

Bring back the White Australia Policy.......Enoch Powell ,RIP.

[Iain]

And his quote was, this is only a quote:
'If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote labour'
See how long this factual piece of information lasts.

[Bodgy]

I agree. I think that instead of refering to them as the media or journalists... a more appropriate word(s) in this day and age would be smut peddlers. Keeping you informed is the last thing they are trying to achieve.

Not smut peddlers, they are media sales people. The only two purposes of all media - TV, Print, Radio et al, is to raise their ratings/circulation thus increasing their rate for ads and 2) to advance their proprietor's political philosophy or business interests - this is a poor second

They print/broadcast what we want to hear.

[rick_rine]

An absolute shame on Australia .