American Bashing

[Bodgy]

Wow! This is approaching the stoush over the old Dutch architect and his chairs. I also find difficulty in where to begin. This discussion has ranged far and wide, and if each individual point (on all sides) were examined, then it would be full time employment.

I've got to be brief today, as am approaching some deadlines at work.

1. Craig, I'm also under that impression. Some of the texts I wrote were post dinner and some red wine. Apologies if muddled.

2. Driver, my attempt at obtuse humour. George Santayana/Savonorola sound similar. Also considered Santianna (spelling?) but given he got Bowie thought it more US bashing.

3. We'll have to disagree. John Company was first and foremost a commercial enterprise. Their ships etc were first class and army may well have been efficient. At that time, and it still lingers, the Poms looked down on 'trade' and the establishment did not encourage sons etc to take up commercial positions.

Unlike yourself, my reading says that the Indian force, this is around the time Wellington got his first big win, did not attract the best candidates. You may well be correct in terms of their efficacy tho. Wellington had to be quite harsh to get his boys up to scratch.

4. Diatribe? hardly. Not that emotive.
I continue to beleive that the US is currently the worlds foremost colonial power. The nature of the exercise of the power has changed, that's all. The dosh still rolls in, just like all the other colonialists. They're better than some, worse than others.

As far as change occuring in the British Empire, of course it did. If you consider the BE in the context of its time and mores, change occured quite rapidly. If you had to be colonised, the Poms were probably the best of the bunch. Look at India, for example. They left behind an educated and trained civil service - the best young Indian men would be recruited and trained in England, a railway network, a pluralistic democracy, a justice system, the end of the Thugees and more. Gandhi, apart from a short imprisonment, was not executed or persecuted, in fact he was a lawyer trained in the UK to illustrate a previous point. Not too many colonial masters behave thus toward such a revolutionary.

19th century Britain changed radically thru the influence of people power. Industrial laws in particular. I'd like to list the changes in that century, it would probably get axed for taking up too much storage.

Finally, I'm not upset. I thought I detected some nay-saying for the sake of it and I was getting played.

I'll leave comment on the other Empires to others, know bugger all about it.

[Bodgy]

Didn't the East India Company play a part in America eventually seeking independence?

Not sure, would need to research. There may be a link which ties in with previous posts in that John Company monopolised the Indian shipping trade. There were ongoing stoushes between the Poms and Seppos, even before independence as their navy and commercial fleets grew (they built great ships and their seamen were as skilled as the Poms - often were ex Poms). This caused lots of friction, and led to the 'Canadian' war of 1812-15.

It wouldn't be a huge logical leap to think that the US wanted a bit of the Indian trade and were so denied by the POms, late 1700's fits too.

The famous Boston tea may have come from India (maybe China) so there was commerce and eventually Starbucks!

[Different]

when they kept their dollar and gold prices artificially low for decades so they could buy up overseas competitors after the war years, or their alledged culteral imperialism with their cheap export of their Hollywood junk, or their military imperialism and involving us in them, their massive cheap exports and their corresponding closed markets keeping the trade deficits most countries face too high and their export of their hamburgers which ruined the Aussie hamburger are IMO fair things to criticise.

Peter.

Interesting view but the above list of actions seem to me to be those that our government has an obligation to make a reality in this country.
America does what it does economically for the same reason a dog licks his testicles, coz he can and so would most others if they could.

Ross

[Different]

That and the other main power will be a united Europe (including Russia) and the USA will become a bit player on the world's stage. Where that will leave us with our reliance on the USA is a great worry.

The future indeed will be a combination of what was described in " 1984 " and " A brave new world ".


Peter.

Aah The taste of Soylent Green!!!

Ross

[Different]

90% of US citizens do not have a passport.

Neither do I!
What is your point?
Please dont tell me that visiting fountains in Rome and buying overpriced coffee in Paris makes you a more rounded world citizen!

Ross

[Different]

I'm wading in here real late on this topic bit thought I'd have a poke in here before I hit the sack.

I have to fully agree with Surdee on the above and that is a big gripe for me about Americans, but there are good blokes on both sides. And don't give me the wooha that they're the saviour for the whole world or that Bush or any president is the leader of the free world, then you really get me going.

And the baseball World Series, I thought it's only teams in America playing, don't remember seeing China or Greenland playing, so what gives? Or is that part of the "we are the world" thing?

And Wongo, what's wrong with Queenslanders mate?


I've made some posts in the past which I've apologised to the bloke I directed it to. But at the end of the day let's all have fun in our shed stuffing up perfectly good bits of wood and help each other out make the stuff ups a bit better, and along the way we can share our Aussie humour beyond the shores of this great brown land.

Mate, I love this country! And let's ditch the national anthem for what I think it should be instead, "Great Southern Land" by Icehouse.

or Sounds of Then by Gang Gajang sp
I can hear the lightning crack over cane fields from here!!!

Ross

[Cliff Rogers]

....
Please dont tell me that visiting fountains in Rome and buying overpriced coffee in Paris makes you a more rounded world citizen!.....

It may not BUT... taveling to another country can give you another perspective.

It may not make you any wiser but it does give you more to talk about.

[Different]

It may not BUT... taveling to another country can give you another perspective.

It may not make you any wiser but it does give you more to talk about.

So can introspection, meditation and education.
I think I will stick with the "Worlds in a small room" concept and leave the mothballed stench of Europe for the owners of passports. Anyhow they probably wouldnt issue one to a redneck like me !!!

Ross

[Lignum]

And the baseball World Series, I thought it's only teams in America playing, don't remember seeing China or Greenland playing, so what gives? Or is that part of the "we are the world" thing?

The initial baseball world series was a tournament sponsered by a newspaper called "The News of the world " (or something like it) and it stayed that way

[ryanarcher]

90% of US citizens do not have a passport.

Neither do I!
What is your point?
Please dont tell me that visiting fountains in Rome and buying overpriced coffee in Paris makes you a more rounded world citizen!

Ross

and it's not true either.

[bitingmidge]

It may not BUT... taveling to another country can give you another perspective.

It may not make you any wiser but it does give you more to talk about.

Or in my case... give them more to talk about.

P

[silentC]

The famous Boston tea may have come from India

The Boston tea was tea from China belonging to the British East India Company. They were struggling because John Hancock and his mates were boycotting tea from China.

So Britain passed the Tea Act which allowed the BEIC to sell their tea to the colonies without the colony tax, making it cheaper than anyone else could sell it for. The Americans got quite upset about it and turned the ships away from their ports, all except Boston which had a British-appointed governor.

As a result of the Boston Tea Party, Britain put the screws on the yanks (the Intolerable Acts) and so they rebelled and fought for independence.

See, it's all the fault of the British East India Company

[Bodgy]

Silent, that makes things clearer and underlines your point. It also adds weight to mine, that the point of Empire is $$. The Poms were coining it, as is the US currently. No moral judgement implied. Like someone said, if you can-you will.

Different, that hackneyed old saw 'travel broadens the mind' seems to apply. You get overpriced coffee everywhere. Europe is surprisingly modern, albeit housed in age old, stately architecture. The culture is vibrant and alive. Go back only a few centuries and this was where it all happened, America was populated by Europeans, as was Oz. To quote my rambunctious interlocuter Driver's quote, 'He who fails to learn from history etc etc.' Europe is the root of our history. Don't want to stand at Runnymede on the spot King John signed the Magna Carta? No interest in the land of Shakespeare, Standing next to the church door where Luther nailed his protest, Napoleon's tomb? Abba's local pub? etc etc.

Buy a ticket, then come back and say your horizons haven't broadened.

Ryan - Good on you for staying with this. I hope its an interesting discussion, not just US bashing.

Re the 90% no passports statement. If this is wrong, I'd like to know. I've certainly read it, and its seems accepted. Doesn't mean its true tho. I have always found the US populace pretty self absorbed and with little knowledge of the wider world. Certainly there is next to no coverage of world affairs in your popular papers. I'm sure this was the case for the mass of Romans, Greeks, Poms etc at their height of Empire. The 90% figure seems beleivable and explains this. If its wrong, what is the figure?

Again, no offence to you intended. In fact you're excluded. You could probably write a book about Oz and the curious antics of its inhabitants.

[ryanarcher]

Re the 90% no passports statement. If this is wrong, I'd like to know. I've certainly read it, and its seems accepted. Doesn't mean its true tho. I have always found the US populace pretty self absorbed and with little knowledge of the wider world. Certainly there is next to no coverage of world affairs in your popular papers. I'm sure this was the case for the mass of Romans, Greeks, Poms etc at their height of Empire. The 90% figure seems beleivable and explains this. If its wrong, what is the figure?

no offence taken 75% per the department of state.

[silentC]

75%? Well, there's hope for them yet!

Speaking of history and travel, you haven't lived until you've done the Hound of the Baskervilles tour at Dartmoor!!