Joining load bearing beams

[jimc]

I am wanting to get peoples ideas here....still in a high level planning phase.

One idea SHMBO has is to remove two internal load bearing walls that join at 90 degrees to each other. I can understand the princple of placing appropriatly sized beam for one of the walls, but I cannot get it clear in my head how the second beam would attach.

would I install one appropriately engineered beam in then install the second beam mid section to the first higher into the roof space?

The spans are reasonably sized, one being 6 metres and the other 4 metres.

[silentC]

join at 90 degrees to each other

I assume you mean that one wall intersects the other somewhere along it's length, like a T intersection?

If you want it to be clear underneath, then the beam that is intersected by the other will need to carry half the weight of the intersecting beam, as well as it's own load. Sounds like a job for an engineer. I'm sure there's a hanger arrangement or something that would allow you to have both beams at the same level. You might have to go to steel.

[jimc]

Yep spot on...they would join like a T.

I was thinking the steel option would be the only way.

Got any rough ideas on expence...$1000?

[TassieKiwi]

Work on aobut $4000/ton for structural steel. Add the engineer's fee, freight, and erection time.

[silentC]

When you say it's load bearing, what is actually sitting on it? Could you reposition some of the roof timbers to free up the intersecting wall? Then you could get away with one structural beam. There might an under-purlin strut on the top plate that could be moved or maybe a strutting beam could be put in to span the old wall.

[echnidna]

Timber span tables do list dimensions for beams and strutting beams which you may be able to apply to your situation.

[Gaza]

whats the walls holding up.
first floor joists
roof and ceiling
trusses
stick frame

[ozwinner]

I think you prolly need to speak to an engineer.

Al :eek:

[jimc]

Thanks for the tips.

Will be off to an engineer if we plan on using that particular design.

cheers

[bigdazza]

Thanks for the tips.

Will be off to an engineer if we plan on using that particular design.

cheers

Assuming that the walls carry roof loads only. Let me know what the roof material is and the approximate area of roof that each beam is to carry and I can let you know the beam sizes you require for budgeting purposes. Prolly Hyspan LVL or Tasbeam for the 6 metre span.

Also bear in mind that each beam will need to be supported at each end on triple studs or similar and that this load concentration needs a load path to get to ground if you are not on a floor slab.

[silentC]

Also bear in mind that each beam will need to be supported at each end on triple studs

Part of his problem is that only one of the beams can be supported at both ends. The other one intersects the first one midway and there won't be a column underneath to support it, so beam number 2 needs to hang off beam number 1. I don't think span tables will cover that situation.

[Glue and Screw]

Sounds like my place.

Steel beam (250 x 90 C 36 PFC)with bracket welded at required intersection, supported by triple studs at each end. Intersecting timber beam (2/240 x 45 F17 KDHW nailed together) bolted to welded bracket and supported by triple studs at other end.

If its a larger ceiling I would sugest also using metal battens for your plaster, you will get a better finish.

Cheers

Marty

[Glue and Screw]

I should of mentioned the bracket gets welded to the inside of the channel and the timber beam gets morticed to fit same.

I hope this helps.

Cheers
Marty

[bigdazza]

Part of his problem is that only one of the beams can be supported at both ends. The other one intersects the first one midway and there won't be a column underneath to support it, so beam number 2 needs to hang off beam number 1. I don't think span tables will cover that situation.

You are correct!!!! But I can still calculate the beam sizes even with a mid span point load. However the accuracy my my advice is only going to be as good as the information supplied ie span, load width, roof and ceiling materials carried etc. This all should be confirmed by a structural engineer later on.

[jimc]

thanks for the help...

ok details as follows....

roof size - 24m and terracotta roof tile

it is only going to support roof and ceiling load

the larger beam needs to be at least 5.7 metres long with the intersecting beam 2.5 metres along its length.

the intersecting beam needs to be at least 4.3 metres long

Can 100*75 RHS be used as a structural member?