Tacky stain

[garfield]

Hi all,

Long time weekend woodworker here and still struggle with staining!

I am redoing an old TV unit, I have painted the base in white and decided I wanted a walnut finish for the top, looked around at the big green shed and all of the stain displays didn't match in my head what I thought walnut colour would look like comparing to the walnut I'd seen in the furniture shops... anyhow I settled on Feast and Watson chocolate walnut, well bugger me it has been hard work!! I first tried spraying the stain with my HVLP spray gun and it was really uneven finish and plenty of dots of the stain pigment along the whole top of the unit, so I sanded it back and had another crack thinning down the stain a bit more and it wasn't much better. So I sanded it down again and this time decided I'd try doing with a brush, this time the stuff seemed so think and tacky and the brush marks were so badly visible that once again I sanded it back and had another crack, this time I thinned it down 30% with mineral turps even though the tin recommends no more than 10%, well it was a bit better but still like trying to paint honey.

I have knocked down the brush marks with 320 sand paper and now want to give another coat, I am seriously thinking of thinning this even more it is just so tacky and think still and doesn't paint on real well. It is a stain and varnish in one, not sure if it is because of that or not but I recently did my other unit and sprayed that one in 2 coats with my gun and it sprayed and come up beautifully... not heaps experienced so maybe the stain and varnish makes it thicker of maybe just Feast and Watson is a garbage stain, not sure but it has been giving me a real hard time.

What do you think If I thin it down more so it spreads and lays down better because not sure I can handle sanding it any more, open to other ideas if you have any.

Thanks
Geoff

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I could easily be off-base here, but that sounds to me like the product is either past it's shelf life or was incorrectly stored at some time in the past.

It should not be such a chore to apply, it certainly shouldn't need that much thinning.

[garfield]

Thanks for the reply Skew....

Yeah mate It is thick and has been a nightmare to apply. I have sanded down the last coat with 1000grit sandpaper but it hasn't removed the brush marks enough and some parts are worse than other parts, but I don't really wanna sand down with 320 again as I know I will have to apply again and it will be the same.

[AlexS]

I could easily be off-base here, but that sounds to me like the product is either past it's shelf life or was incorrectly stored at some time in the past.

It should not be such a chore to apply, it certainly shouldn't need that much thinning.

What Skew said.

[havabeer69]

yep sounds like its gone off. take it back and get them to open a new tin in front of you.

also consider using a sanding sealer so it doesn't go on too blotchy

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

If you only bought the tin recently, I wouldn't buy/replace it with the same brand from the same store again. It's not as though this stuff is what most stores would call a "fast mover" so you'd possibly end up with the same prob in another can.

[Bushmiller]

Geoff

it does sound as if the product is off, but could you identify exactly what you bought? Either a description of the product or, even better, a pic of the product would be helpful.

It sounds to me without knowing that you have bought a combined stain and varnish.

Regards
Paul

[garfield]

Thanks for the reply men.

It makes it hard as I cannot even find a use by or date of manufacture date on the tin.

This is the exact one I got

Just a moment...

[Bushmiller]

Geoff

I thought that may be the case. In a way this is both good and bad.

The bad side, and I have to state my extreme prejudice, is that stain is designed to penetrate and varnish is designed to seal. When combined they don't really perform either function terribly well. Or, if I was being less sensitive, it is a terrible combination.

The good side is that you have been able to remove this product with relative ease, because it is a poor performer. I agree with others that you should return the product because it "has gone off."

I think you should consider buying separate stain and varnish. Now, if you do that, and you find the stain is not to your liking, you probably will not be able to easily remove it so make sure you try it first on a hidden part of the furniture or an underside. Also remember that, when applied, the varnish will darken the stain slightly.

In buying a dedicated stain I think you will also find a greater range of product and should be able find something more to your liking. One last comment is that the appearance will depend on the type of timber. For example a stain on Pine will not be quite the same as the same stain on an Oak, because of different rates of absorption. Also look out for the two types of stain. One provides a more blanket cover while others allow the grain of the timber to show through.

Regards
Paul

[garfield]

Geoff

I thought that may be the case. In a way this is both good and bad.

The bad side, and I have to state my extreme prejudice, is that stain is designed to penetrate and varnish is designed to seal. When combined they don't really perform either function terribly well. Or, if I was being less sensitive, it is a terrible combination.

The good side is that you have been able to remove this product with relative ease, because it is a poor performer. I agree with others that you should return the product because it "has gone off."

I think you should consider buying separate stain and varnish. Now, if you do that, and you find the stain is not to your liking, you probably will not be able to easily remove it so make sure you try it first on a hidden part of the furniture or an underside. Also remember that, when applied, the varnish will darken the stain slightly.

In buying a dedicated stain I think you will also find a greater range of product and should be able find something more to your liking. One last comment is that the appearance will depend on the type of timber. For example a stain on Pine will not be quite the same as the same stain on an Oak, because of different rates of absorption. Also look out for the two types of stain. One provides a more blanket cover while others allow the grain of the timber to show through.

Regards
Paul

Thanks for the detailed reply Paul.

I wondered if it was because the stain and varnish in one, I was so close to buying a stain and then adding a varnish off choice because I like a matte type shein not a fan of stained wood with a really glossy finish.

You think I'd get a refund on that product?

Thanks

[Bushmiller]

Thanks for the detailed reply Paul.

I wondered if it was because the stain and varnish in one, I was so close to buying a stain and then adding a varnish off choice because I like a matte type shein not a fan of stained wood with a really glossy finish.

You think I'd get a refund on that product?

Thanks

Geoff

I think you would be absolutely entitled to a refund based on your description of what happened. Take the product back together with the receipt or with the debit/redit card evidence and explain the problem. In the unlikely event they will not give a refund I would go direct to Feast Watson with the problem. Don't leave either for too long.

I like gloss finish but rarely use it: The reason is that it requires a perfect surface to look good and to remain looking good it should have no damage. As a restored piece of furniture, I doubt the surface of your cabinet is perfect. A finish that I return to time and time again is to use a matt varnish (two coats sanding lightly in between)), leave for 48hours and then rub Scandinavian teak Oil or Danish Oil in using either steel wool or a scourer (kitchen type). When dry it can be polished with a soft cloth or even a power buffer. It produces a warm sheen and a sliky smooth finish. It is ideally suited to re-finishing furniture that may have a few blemishes. Whilst I originally used it for furniture and still do, in recent times I treat all my new saw handles with this process.

P1080048 (Medium).JPG


This recipe actually came from the Wattyl company but you can use any brand of matt varnish and oil. The oil acts as the lubricant for the rubbing medium, but also leaves a residue that buffs to a satin type finish.

Regards
Paul