Future of the Australian Electricity Market

[woodPixel]

This was discussed a bit a few pages back, but I thought people might be interested in the progress made.

New system retrofits diesel engines to run on 90% hydrogen

It doesn't solve, as some posters speculate, the Hydrogen storage + transport issue (I suppose it might be a thing, but I don't know much about it).

A decent read. Maybe an opportunity in the future to upgrade the multitude of diesel industrial motors to dual/alt fuels?....

[Optimark]

For some time I have wondered about Lithium supply and whether there would be enough for the seemingly never ending and upwards demand for lithium batteries which, as we know, power everything from hand held torches through to automobiles and running your house batteries charged from rooftop solar.

This I found to be quite interesting as it gives what seems to be a balanced viewpoint of things; dated April 12 this year.

How lithium mining is fueling the EV revolution | McKinsey

Mick.

[Bushmiller]

This was discussed a bit a few pages back, but I thought people might be interested in the progress made.

New system retrofits diesel engines to run on 90% hydrogen

It doesn't solve, as some posters speculate, the Hydrogen storage + transport issue (I suppose it might be a thing, but I don't know much about it).

A decent read. Maybe an opportunity in the future to upgrade the multitude of diesel industrial motors to dual/alt fuels?....

WP

Looks interesting and I note that it is tolerant of low purity H2 so that would presumeably reduce cost. It could be a very worth while transition option providing it is economically viable.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

For some time I have wondered about Lithium supply and whether there would be enough for the seemingly never ending and upwards demand for lithium batteries which, as we know, power everything from hand held torches through to automobiles and running your house batteries charged from rooftop solar.

This I found to be quite interesting as it gives what seems to be a balanced viewpoint of things; dated April 12 this year.

How lithium mining is fueling the EV revolution | McKinsey

Mick.

Mick

The sustainability of Lithium is an interesting question. My guess is that ultimately we will run out of supply and coupled to some limitations of Lithium batteries (heat tolerance for example) it too will be a transition material that will suit the planet's purpose for some time.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

These are a couple of documents that cam across my desk when I returned to work the other day.

Queensland SuperGrid Infrastructure Blueprint (epw.qld.gov.au)

This one I found encouraging in that it is some sort of projected plan recognising action has to happen. It is quite lengthy but if you don't wish to view at length, I would draw your attention to page 4. (It isn't numbered for some reason, but does fall between pages 3 & 5, which are numbered )


About the plan | Department of Energy and Public Works (epw.qld.gov.au)

I haven't read this one myself yet as we were too busy yesterday. Do let me know what it says as I am always sceptical about how defunct industries will see people re-trained in new disciplines (Holden/Ford shutdowns would be an example). However, I can be a litttle complacent as at this early stage of my working life I don't see it impacting me a lot. That in itself is, of course, a mantra I hear from older people: "It won't worry me." They apparently have no regard for the welfare of their children and grandchildren!

Regards
Paul

[GraemeCook]

... The sustainability of Lithium is an interesting question. My guess is that ultimately we will run out of supply and ...

That is an engineer's answer, Paul, rather than that of an economist. I have had a similar debate over many years with respect to the oil supply. [Note; oil supply, not environmental issues] Let me explain.

Forty years ago there were various predictions that the world would run out of oil "in 20 years time". Demonstrably that has not happened, but the price has risen erratically. An economist would write a simple equation:

S ∝ P

Supply is a function of or is proportional to price. As the price of oil rose, previously uneconomic fields became viable and the recoverable supply rose. Also more exploration happened, and synthetic substitutes (eg ethanol) became commercially viable. All increased supply.

I strongly suspect that with lithium economic supply will follow prices. Or another type of battery will supplant Li-Ion.

Its not that long ago when Ni-Cad and NiMH were the bees knees.

[BobL]

This is interesting
Scientists have cost-effectively harvested lithium from seawater | Electrek

[woodPixel]

There is no shortage of Lithium. None.

There are three mines I've invested in now (somewhat indirectly as one cannot invest IN the mine!) but their ability to supply is just about endless¹.

In the case of one, in the USA, it literally is distilled out of the hyper concentrated salt pulled from the ground. Its so EXCELLENT!

I suspect dead batteries will soon be fed back into the furnaces. Collection is pretty easy. But I was reading about batteries, and the amount of Lithium (as a carbonate) in each is rather insubstantial (0.3 gram x amp hour capacity). A few cents in each, that's it (~50 cents a gram, today)

Yesterday, I was reading up on Lithium and Rubidium (FAR more interesting) and the costs of Li are going berko, but its China paying silly prices due to systemic market collapses there. Ru is a VERY interesting metal.



¹ Too late to invest now. China has attempted to corner the market since January and a hideous crash is sure to implode them. The same as what happened to Nickel. Kaboom!

[woodPixel]

This is interesting
Scientists have cost-effectively harvested lithium from seawater | Electrek

This is an ABSOLUTE GAME CHANGER if real.

Im going to read more on this.

My mind is boggled. Not only that - it changes EVERYTHING I can think of.

wow wow wow.

[Chris Parks]

This seems to be gaining some traction Grassroots plan to 'electrify' northern Wollongong suburb promoted as Australian-first - ABC News

[NeilS]

Yes, I saw that interview with Dr Saul Griffith on the ABC 7:30 Report two nights ago.

My summary: He argues for the benefits and long term return from government support for household electrification (including cars) and he is not the least bit enthusiastic about a near term focus on hydrogen.

The interviewer didn't raise with him the potential benefits of hydrogen as a means of storage to support this increased use of green electricity, as has been discussed here.

[Chris Parks]

The change to sustainable energy has two main problems, cheap network recyclable batteries and solving all the problems surrounding Hydrogen which in the end is dependent on cheap batteries or so it would seem at this point in the changeover. The world we live in depends on electricity and that needs to be solved before we can move on. The way it is happening now is a dead end just like fossil fuels are.

[BobL]

I'm not a fan of Hydrogen either.
This article pretty sums up my thoughts on this topic
Hydrogen Hype in the Air - Clean Energy Group

Claims that Hydrogen is a Zero Emissions Fuel is basically BS because at a minimum it still produces large amounts of NOx.
Depending on how it's burned and what else is already in the air it also still produces large amounts of particulate matter.
NOx itself is also particulate matter and ozone precursor.

This is well know but usually ignored, just like diesel was pushed initially (especially in the EU) because it produced lower CO2, but it too makes more NOx and more particulates.

Most forms of combustive energy production will have these sorts of problems.

Simple answer is, where you can, "stop burning stuff"

[Bushmiller]

I'm not a fan of Hydrogen either.
This article pretty sums up my thoughts on this topic
Hydrogen Hype in the Air - Clean Energy Group

Claims that Hydrogen is a Zero Emissions Fuel is basically BS because at a minimum it still produces large amounts of NOx.
Depending on how it's burned and what else is already in the air it also still produces large amounts of particulate matter.
NOx itself is also particulate matter and ozone precursor.

This is well know but usually ignored, just like diesel was pushed initially (especially in the EU) because it produced lower CO2, but it too makes more NOx and more particulates.

Most forms of combustive energy production will have these sorts of problems.

Simple answer is, where you can, "stop burning stuff"

Thanks for that Bob

The problem is that there is no easy solution. The H2 issue has two directions and both only work, in varying degrees, provided they are produced using "green" energy. The fuel cell option seems the better of the two and may well be suitable for heavier vehicular transportation. The conversion of gas turbines to H2 as their fuel source, as you have pointed out, is not without issues and certainly does more than produce water.

Power stations produce particulate matter (flyash) but have baghouses to capture the majority of those emissions. That could be adapted to capture particulate matter from gas turbines where thay have an HRSG taked on the back to utilise waste heat. In the case of a straight through gas turbine the heat of the exhaust would be far too great and melt the baghouse in seconds! Modern thermal fired boilers have burners adapted to reduce Nox. In fact our boilers have "low Nox burners," so I imagine (but don't know) that development would mitigate that aspect for burning H2.

The burning () question becomes is the H2 overall better than the existing gases?

Regards
Paul

[BobL]

One problem with any process that produces some pollutants is scale.

If one process produces only 10% of the pollutants of another process - when 10x more of the second process is used/required we're back at square one.
That points to a fundamental problem "Too many bloody people" ??

When Australia had about 5 million people, one family in 10 owned a vehicle, and the main electricity use was for lightning and the odd appliance, CO2 wasn't that big a deal. Now its about 5x more population, 2.5 vehicles per family and a similar amount of energy use daily to run a zillion home appliances and . . . . . . . .