Winching up heavy items - could this possilbly go wrong

[Arron]

In a few days the company doing our benchtops etc will come out to do a check measure. No doubt they will want to discuss how to get the 12 pieces of engineered stone up to our second floor kitchen and bathrooms. The largest ones are around 2800mm x 1200mm and 2800mm x 880mm and I expect he will want us to hire a crane and go via the balcony.

Part of this is me wanting to avoid the cost, but also I have doubts about how a crane can get the stone slabs in without risking damage - with the balcony roof overhanging the balcony and the cladding being fragile Orangeboard (polystyrene).

Allowing 50kgs per square meter the largest slabs will be about 170 kg and 125 kg respectively.

What I’m wondering is if we can instead use our electric winch to lift them. The winch is rated at 500kg and is robustly bolted to a 90mm gal steel balcony post. The steel post is bolted, top and bottom, to the structural steel that supports the balcony and its roof.

I have brought many other items up this way like shower screens and balcony glass, but nothing over about 70kg I estimate.

I have attached a photo. The thing in the middle is the winch wrapped in plastic. As configured it’s only rated to about 150kg but I can raise that to 500 by changing the mounting. The white timber going horizontally across the middle is just part of a temporary safety screen.

Ultimately it’s up to the installers how they want to work, but I can’t assume they are competent with a winch or mindful of what can go wrong.

So what could possibly go wrong?

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[woodg62]

I would let the installers to it whatever way the want. Then, if something goes wrong it's their responsibility to fix it or replace damaged benchtops.

[Arron]

Yes, ultimately they will decide. My concern is can I guarantee that if I am requested to hire a crane, and the slab is damaged while being craned, that the installers will replace it? Likewise, if the house is damaged, can I guarantee the installers will repair that to my standard?

Of course I can talk to them about getting it written into the contract.

[China]

As said above it is the installers problem, they new the access when you contracted them.

[Arron]

As said above it is the installers problem, they new the access when you contracted them.

Not exactly how it works. Usually they just have a form asking if it’s a 2 storey house, access from street etc. Detail like whether the kitchen is actually upstairs or downstairs and how roomy the staircase is are left for the check measure stage. The quote is usually adjusted at that point for various reasons.

[Mr Brush]

With the right lifting gear, and enough "blokes with no necks", they may still prefer to do it manually. We had a full size sheet of stone benchtop (with doubled up edge thickness) installed in a new kitchen, and they just had 4 guys manhandle it in (including up a short flight of stairs from garage entry). For guys who do this work all the time, it isn't as heavy as you think !

[Arron]

With the right lifting gear, and enough "blokes with no necks", they may still prefer to do it manually. We had a full size sheet of stone benchtop (with doubled up edge thickness) installed in a new kitchen, and they just had 4 guys manhandle it in (including up a short flight of stairs from garage entry). For guys who do this work all the time, it isn't as heavy as you think !

Yes, very likely. That might explain why they aren’t particularly interested in this level of detail.

Now I think of it, in our last house we had massive granite slabs fitted and they were carried up stairs by 3 little skinny guys. I had forgotten that.

just to clarify, the purpose of this thread was just to make sure that if I offered them the use of the winch, and they accepted, I wasn’t doing anything stupid or illegal.

[Chesand]

if I offered them the use of the winch, and they accepted, I wasn’t doing anything stupid or illegal.

I wouldn't offer anything, let them ask. The onus is on them then.

[Mr Brush]

Hope you get a good result, however they do it

[DJ’s Timber]

just to clarify, the purpose of this thread was just to make sure that if I offered them the use of the winch, and they accepted, I wasn’t doing anything stupid or illegal.

As a crane operator, I’d say that unless the setup has been certified, for example the post and beams etc that it’s all bolted to, it isn’t legal, so if something was to go wrong, all responsibilities would land on you and regardless of whether you had liability insurance or not, it’d be coming out of your pocket.

[Arron]

As a crane operator, I’d say that unless the setup has been certified, for example the post and beams etc that it’s all bolted to, it isn’t legal, so if something was to go wrong, all responsibilities would land on you and regardless of whether you had liability insurance or not, it’d be coming out of your pocket.

Well, that’s a showstopper.

[havabeer69]

As a crane operator, I’d say that unless the setup has been certified, for example the post and beams etc that it’s all bolted to, it isn’t legal, so if something was to go wrong, all responsibilities would land on you and regardless of whether you had liability insurance or not, it’d be coming out of your pocket.

I thought most crane drivers etc also hand a form for you to sign that basically says "the crane and its driver will be exempt from all damages caused by this crane" or something to that effect?


your winch etc would probably do it fine, its also making sure that the rigging gear for picking it up is going to fit into the hook etc. in end you've paid a fair bit of money to get all this stone made up, is stinging out at the end trying to bring it up semi dodigly really where you want to go wrong?

[Mobyturns]

Worst case scenario - some one gets injured when the hoist or a sling fails, you get sued for personal injury & damages, your home insurance public liability will not cover that event. Now if they fall down the stairs - different story.

Materials Hoist Operation in a "work place" generally comes under the definition of "high risk work" in all states and territories in Australia as defined in the Workplace Health & Safety Regulation. It requires the hoist to be certified yearly and the operator must hold an appropriate licence. Your home becomes the kitchen installers workplace for the duration of the task.

Many companies that have / had materials hoists that were used infrequently have taken them out of service due to the operator training, hoist certification, compliance costs and liability issues.

Do not make the hoist available to them - unless you intend to fully comply with the Workplace Health & Safety Regulation.

Any competent firm would never accept or permit its employees using customer supplied ladders, hoists etc because of the compliance issues and potential prosecution under the Workplace Health & Safety Regulation if their is an injury etc.

[Arron]

Worst case scenario - some one get injured when the hoist or a sling fails, you get sued, your home insurance public liability does not cover that event.

Materials Hoist Operation in a "work place" generally comes under the definition of "high risk work" in all states and territories in Australia as defined in the Workplace Health & Safety Regulation. It requires the hoist to be certified yearly and the operator must hold an appropriate licence. Your home becomes the kitchen installers workplace for the duration of the task.

Many companies that have / had materials hoists that were used infrequently have taken them out of service due to the operator training, hoist certification & compliance costs.

Do not make the hoist available to them - unless you intend to comply with the Workplace Health & Safety Regulation.

Regardless of whether this is right or wrong in law, this scares me enough to say the decision is made - no hoist.

[Mobyturns]

Regardless of whether this is right or wrong in law, this scares me enough to say the decision is made - no hoist.

Right decision imho.

I'm rusty on WH&S issues as I've been out of the work force 5 years now, but I had to undertake yearly compliance training which covered hoists that were in our workplaces but rendered inoperable due to the issues mentioned.

The definition of a "hoist" may not cover your setup but why assume the risk when others are involved.

"Hoist - A materials or personnel hoist is a builder's hoist where personnel, goods and/or materials are hoisted."