issue with stain leaching from dining table

[CameronCross]

Hi! My name is Cameron and thanks for providing this group. I have a question I'm hoping someone can help with. I purchased a custom timber dining table and during the process the colour of the stain was changed to be darker. After they guy delivered it I now notice that the red stain comes out... like on the sleeves on the arms of a jumper when resting on the table. The guy is being very difficult the secure him to come back and fix it but I am not sure he knows how. Could I get some recommendations for me to fix it myself? I want a matte finish.

I share a photo here and let me know what you think?

[Lyle]

Do you know what his staining and finishing process and products were?
What wood is the table and if it/was seasoned dry or green with a moisture content.

The problem could be one or more depending on answers to the q questions.
Solutions need to be suited to the answers.
Lyle

[Darklord]

Looks like it has been stained and waxed or finished with boot polish which would be similar to staining and then waxing over the top.

The person who made it is probably a novice with no idea what he was doing. Looks good, sell it, blame the customer when it all goes wrong. I've seen some similar stuff here in Queensland which has come in from the Philippines or Taiwan and has the same problem. Some of their good stuff is good but their lower end stuff definitely isn't.

You may be able to fix it yourself but shouldn't have to as you paid for it to be right and usable. Not for it to stain your cloths. Some people shouldn't be allowed to sell their garbage work. Probably learned his finishing on YouTube where most YouTubers are doing it wrong and don't care, they're making their money with their bad videos and not their great woodworking skills.

Good luck with fixing it.

Darky

[hurcorh]

That's terrible, sorry you've had a bad experience like that! Purchasing a handmade custom bit of furniture should be exciting and rewarding. Ultimately things do go wrong sometimes but quality makers will back their product and typcailly fix any wrongdoings.

Just based on your limited description i'd guess he had stained it and not put any protective coatings over the top or whatever he has put over the top was not suitable.

Best method to fix this for good would be to sand it back, re-stain, after stain has fully dried apply a protective coating such as polyurethane or a hardwax oil like Osmo or similar.

I agree with Darky and this probably wasn't made to any sort of an acceptable standard IMO.

[CameronCross]

Hi DarkLord! I think you may be exactly right. I think this because the water on the surface beads... like it's got a wax finish. And the behaviour of the supplier was exactly what you said... he's blamed me and now not responding to requests.
As a way to fix it myself, I have one person recommend techniques on this guide? Matte Finishing Techniques

Got any thoughts? especially on which of the techniques to try?
Thanks heaps all for responding... I feel terrible having this beautiful piece sitting here and can't use it.

[CameronCross]

Hi Lyle, i'm pretty sure it's like DarkLord suggested because water beads on the surface... "Looks like it has been stained and waxed or finished with boot polish which would be similar to staining and then waxing over the top."
I was given this link to suggested solutions but not sure which one to try? https://www.rockler.com/learn/matte-finishing-techniques?fbclid=IwAR1P0VAYk9SipsrQxnvzhZikDzsBiCK-HE4rAUxVDWOJep1c-blfWs6m17Q

[CameronCross]

ahh interesting... maybe this is all to do. Thanks for responding and yes... I'm sad about it. They guy is not responding at all now and blaming me.
Hurcorh, I wonder if you have any thoughts on this list of options someone else recommended? Matte Finishing Techniques

[hurcorh]

I can't guarantee what finish will adhere to that surface as I don't know what was applied previously by the guy who made this. If you think it's a wax, most other finishes won't adhere well over the top of that other than more wax without sanding it back.

[CameronCross]

Cheers, that sounds like a fair thing to say. When in doubt sand it back and do it again. It's ok, I work work out some of the gaps and cracks.
So in that case, sanded back, could you recommend the best/easiest way to do matte redish finish?

- - - Updated - - -

oh, i tried the guy again and now he's totally dark... won't even tell me the method

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

If it is a wax finish, I'd suggest scrubbing it down with scourers and suitable solvent to remove as much wax residue as possible before sanding.

If you simply try sanding back the existing coat, well... wax 'smears' so you'll end up changing papers and sanding quite a bit more than otherwise necessary. You will need to remove ALL traces of wax from the piece or it will affect any finish you apply. (Unless you're going for another wax finish. )

Solvents such as acetone or isopropyl alcohol should work; they probably won't be the most effective for the the particular blend of wax in use here, but that can be made up for with elbow grease. Without knowing whether it's carnauba, paraffin or bees wax (or a blend or a synthetic or... ) it's hard to be more specific.

If you go this path, be very careful working with these solvents. They're generally the sort of thing that OH&S have hissy fits about... usually for good reason.

[CameronCross]

Cool. I'll do a test area.
For staining and sealing again, i notice you rolling your eyes at waxing it again? It's all new to me... I just want a matte reddish finish ideally not toxic or as least toxic as possible given it's a dinning table

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Sorry, didn't mean to be vague.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing a wax finish, but it's not really the best choice for a high wear area such as a dining table. Not unless you have servants who're willing to re-wax it almost every day. That's just the nature of the finish.

Also, no other finish I know of will readily go over wax; many will be spoiled by the least wax smudge.

I suspect you'll have to sand back to bare timber to get rid of it all, especially if the colour was embedded in it (as in a shoe polish) in the first place.

Given that, if you do sand back to timber I think you'd be better off by applying a known stain. Tinted 'all-in-one' finishes are available and probably the simplest to apply, but I prefer to use a dedicated stain (either spirit or water based) and then apply an appropriate, durable-clear coat over that. Mainly because I feel this gives better control of both colour and intensity of the stain.

It does take practise though and I imagine you don't have any offcuts of that timber to experiment on?

[ubeaut]

Hello Cameron

I have to agree with Darklord does have that stained and waxed or oiled look that a lot of lower quality Asian imports have. Same sort of thing that many unenlightened backyarders do... Stain it, wax it, yep, looks good, and gets it out the door quickly... But not durable.
About the only thing that will go over the stain and wax is shellac (French polish) it has the ability to stick like poop to a blanket over almost anything, including silicon. You should be able to get shellac in Brazil. Carnauba wax (Brazil wax) should also go over what you have there and adhere plus give you a tougher more durable finish.

You would need to mix a little paraffin and maybe bees was with it. Say 1 part of each to 4 parts carnauba wax heated carefully, to melt it, then add some white spirits, turpentine or Stoddard's solution (not sure what it's called in Brazil) not sure how much but approximately the same amount of liquid as the liquid waxes.

That mix should be spreadable and buffable, Try it on the underside of the table before jumping in boots and all, to make sure it's workable for you. if not melt and add a little more of the white oil / etc.

Hope this is of some help to you.

Cheers - Neil

PS do you know what wood it is? Looks like maker has done a really poor stain job on end piece to make it look like rosewood. Top looks a nit like mahogany but hard to tell.

[CameronCross]

Howdy Neil. yes your method would definitely remove the need to sand right back with I was mentally preparing myself for. And you're right it's a hardwood with stain to make if darker with a slight reddish... and it came looking like mahogany. Here is what the timber used looks like with just the lacquer.
Basically the rest of the timber in my place is darker than this.
WhatsApp Image 2022-07-22 at 1.10.00 PM.jpeg