Software issue - consumer protection case?

[derekcohen]

Two years ago I employed a Perth-based software company to write an App for Mac and Android. It took some writing and re-writing to get where it was acceptable, and the bill for this was $5500. It went onto iTunes and Google Play, where my it was available to download for free. I did not charge for it - I considered this a gift to aid my patients and others who had a similar need.

Two years down the track, and both iTunes and Google Play no longer will retain it on file as they moved from 32-bit to 64-bit software.

What I want to know is whether the software company should have been aware that the app they were writing would end up outdated within two years? If so (as I believe), should they be responsible for either refunding the costs or re-writing the app under 64-bit? I have approached them, and they just palmed me off with "we were taken by surprise as well". If I am correct, is this a case for Consumer Protection if they do not come to the party?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bernmc]

Apple were phasing out 32bit support for IOS way back in '17, and for Mac in '18. Don't know when android did it - probably a bit later as it's less of a 'closed' system and appears on every man and his dog's widget.

No idea whether you have any grounds to chase the company for this- I gues it would depend on the exact wording of the contract/scope of work.

[derekcohen]

Is there a difference in complexity in writing for 32-bit and 64-bit? Why would 32-bit be used when it was known that it would be outdated in two years?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mobyturns]

Is there a difference in complexity in writing for 32-bit and 64-bit? Why would 32-bit be used when it was known that it would be outdated in two years?

Regards from Perth

Derek

A 64 bit Operating System (OS) processor generally can run 32 bit software (backwards compatible via 32 bit emulation) but a 32 bit OS can not run 64 bit software because it simply does not have the processing power to do so (much simplified).

If the developers originally wrote the app for a 64 bit OS it is most likely that potential users would not have been able to run the app at the time.

Unfortunately you will not have success and will require 32 bit and a 64 bit versions of the app for older PC's etc and current 64 bit OS's (available since circa 2001 btw).

Most devices running a 64 bit OS (Win 10 etc) will be running both 32 & 64 bit applications anyway.

Perform an internet search for "what is the difference between 32 bit and 64 bit"

[DDLC]

In my experience it comes down to:
- the ongoing support and maintenance agreements in the contract and if they cover making the application available ongoing in perpetuity or words to a similar effect
- the stipulation of the requirements of the application noted in the contract ie if it is to be made to work on a certain device or OPerating system + model/year/version

The other aspect is who administers the app store listings for the application.
The party (you or the software company) responsible for this administration should have received plenty of advance notice of the upcoming 32-bit incompatibility and therefore should have had opportunity to action a proactive update the app to 64-bit compatibility.

Difficulty of the 64-bit upgrade depends on the app complexity, but would be best advised by the software company as the primary constructors of the app.

In my experience as a software app manager, I usually weigh up the stress/time to cost benefit.
My preference is to keep my developers onside, and pose it is a problem and ask them for their preferred solution and a quote for the time and cost it will take.
This can then be weighed up against the stress/time incurred upon yourself and your clients if the update to 64-bit is slowed down by a consumer affairs case etc.
Just my perspective.

Hope this helps.

[lyricnz]

I’m also a coder, and agree with previous poster. It’s not really the developers fault - if you didn’t ask for a 64-bit app, you didn’t get it. Updating for 64 bit isn’t normally a big deal, but $5500 doesn’t buy a lot of software.

[pippin88]

A 64 bit Operating System (OS) processor generally can run 32 bit software (backwards compatible via 32 bit emulation) but a 32 bit OS can not run 64 bit software because it simply does not have the processing power to do so (much simplified).

If the developers originally wrote the app for a 64 bit OS it is most likely that potential users would not have been able to run the app at the time.

Unfortunately you will not have success and will require 32 bit and a 64 bit versions of the app for older PC's etc and current 64 bit OS's (available since circa 2001 btw).

Most devices running a 64 bit OS (Win 10 etc) will be running both 32 & 64 bit applications anyway.

Perform an internet search for "what is the difference between 32 bit and 64 bit"

Interestingly, ARM processors from 2023 onwards will not run 32bit code.

Derek - something doesn't seem to add up: Apple dropped 32 bit support back in 2017 I believe?

[derekcohen]

In my simplistic view, either the developer wrote the app with incorrect code (as he would have been aware of the circumstances), or this is an example of planned obsolescence by Apple/Google - which I was not warned about. I gather many others have also had their apps refused by iTunes. The app may have been inexpensive by app development standards (although I did not know this - it was what was quoted), but it was the maximum I could afford for a free app-to-be. It is not affordable to pay for a new version.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ian]

Two years ago I employed a Perth-based software company to write an App for Mac and Android. It took some writing and re-writing to get where it was acceptable, and the bill for this was $5500. It went onto iTunes and Google Play, where my it was available to download for free. I did not charge for it - I considered this a gift to aid my patients and others who had a similar need.

Two years down the track, and both iTunes and Google Play no longer will retain it on file as they moved from 32-bit to 64-bit software.

What I want to know is whether the software company should have been aware that the app they were writing would end up outdated within two years? If so (as I believe), should they be responsible for either refunding the costs or re-writing the app under 64-bit? I have approached them, and they just palmed me off with "we were taken by surprise as well". If I am correct, is this a case for Consumer Protection if they do not come to the party?

Derek

Putting on my prior operational audit hat what you are asking about comes down to who owns all the rights to the coding behind your 32-bit app?
If you only paid AUD $5500 to the software company, it will be the software company not you who owns the copyright to the code that was created. (as an example, the guy who photographed our wedding 35 years ago, asked for and received AUD $500 to pass the negatives over to us.)
Fast forward to 2020, and I would expect that any software company would be asking well in excess of AUD $10000 (in addition to their actual coding costs) to assign to you all the copyrights behind your app.

The complexity of copyright law is covered from about 4:15 in this YT video How Taylor Swift (Legally) Changed Music Forever ft. Rick Beato - YouTube
Yes the vid is US centric, but Australian copyright law -- as a result of lobbying by US based film studios and software behemoths and the US-Australia free trade agreement -- is similar in scope.
According to Legal Eagle -- who is a practicing US lawyer -- under US law there are at least SIX separate copyrights involved in the creation of a piece of music.
When it comes to software creation there will be a similar number (6) of "copyrights" involved.

What did the software development contract you signed say?
Based on the limited information you provided the software company provided you with a working 32-bit app -- job done.
To get a working 64-bit app you will need to engage them to do a rewrite of the code so that it works on 64-bit operating systems.


I honestly can't see a consumer protection issue here.

[havabeer69]

I would also argue you have your own small part to do some due diligence to make sure your app was written to a code you wanted that would be supported for sometime.

As judge judy said "you paid $100 for a $600 job and you got a $100 result, thats your problem, you want a premium product, pay a premium price"


the other argument you may have would be proving that the company SHOULD have known the two big platforms where phasing out the 32bit system.

[derekcohen]

How does one know what code/bit-rate to request when you are not code-literate? Do you order a motor car by the bhp of the motor? Are you to take responsibility in an insurance claim when you failed to specify the size of the hex bolts holding down the safety belts? I requested an app, expected it to work, and paid what I was quoted. It was a large amount to me - I have no comparison points.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[fxst]

Derek just a question with nothing to do with the legalities of it as I am just a layman wood chopper upper, Have you enquired as to the cost to remake it in 64 bit code as the app is already operational?

[derekcohen]

Yes, I have enquired. Getting vague answers and avoidance. It sounds like his business has picked up and I am in the too-hard-for-too-little box.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[forrestmount]

Hi Derek

Do you have the source code? If you don’t chances are you don’t own the IP and vice versa.

If you do have the Source code and a working example of the app you might find a someone willing to do the task on a platform such as upwork


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[derekcohen]

No, I don't have the source code. I did mention it once. Don't believe he answered this.

The app works on my iPhone and iPad. Those who have the app continue to use it. It is just not available to anyone who wants it at thus time.

Regards from Perth

Derek