Electric, Hybrid or Just Wait

[elanjacobs]

OK given the max Towing weight spec for the 200 LC Landcruiser is 3500 kg

Things may be closer than you think with models like the Rivian R1S is up there at 3.5 Tons.
The big problem is there are no plans to release in Oz - somehow I doubt we'll ever see them here
0-60 MPH in 3s as well - obviously not while towing.

The bigger problem (that manufacturers conveniently omit) is that towing absolutely tanks battery life. The numbers look comparable on paper, but in the real world it doesn't add up yet.

Good video here with lots of math explaining it, I know it's 2 years old and comparing an F150 to a Landcruiser isn't exactly even, but it's still a good demonstration of what's going on Why Teslas Are Bad At Towing (Today) - YouTube

[havabeer69]

The bigger problem (that manufacturers conveniently omit) is that towing absolutely tanks battery life. The numbers look comparable on paper, but in the real world it doesn't add up yet.

Good video here with lots of math explaining it, I know it's 2 years old and comparing an F150 to a Landcruiser isn't exactly even, but it's still a good demonstration of what's going on Why Teslas Are Bad At Towing (Today) - YouTube

all my friends complain about their fuel economy turning to poop towing their $50,000+ caravans around with their ford rangers etc.

[elanjacobs]

all my friends complain about their fuel economy turning to poop towing their $50,000+ caravans around with their ford rangers etc.

Yeah, but you can refill a petrol car in 5 mins...EVs not so much

[Mr Brush]

Pfffft....electric cars? No thanks, I'm holding out for my personal jetpack, which they've been promising us for years now. Can't be far away?

Available Now! The Jetpack! - That Mitchell & Webb Look Series 4 Episode 3 - BBC Two - YouTube

[Chris Parks]

Yeah, but you can refill a petrol car in 5 mins...EVs not so much

The cost or refueling an electric BEV is far cheaper than a conventional ICE powered vehicle. The upside of electric power is of course a flat torque curve which delivers effortless towing in a far quiter vehicle and the downside not often mentioned is the problem of constant high current draw which batteries don't like. I am surprised Jason didn't mention it in the video.

[Bushmiller]

Everything has a trade-off. if you use a petrol or diesel vehicle to tow a 3.5 tonne trailer that has the aerodynamics of a brick you are going to pay through the wallet. The latest motor version with the twin turbos have economies varying around the 9.5L/100 to 10.5L/100 (23mpg to 20mpg very roughly in the old money.) Tow your favourite brick and that would probably halve, if you are honest. Nobody gets anything for nothing!

The majority of nomads travel 100km to 200km at a go. So the electric vehicle will be able to cope with this. Admittedly if you want to go further you are going to have to plan a little, but between comfort stops and food intake I would suggest this can easily be accommodated. Just don't attempt to go across the Nullarbor just yet!

For those that think the electric vehicle cannot tow, have a gander at this (about 30 seconds in) from the delightful Juice Media girls:

(Language Warning: For the lily livered among you.)



Honest Government Ads - The Juice Media

Regards
Paul

PS: It is not really the Australian Government! Apparently somebody in the Government at one time thought there would be some confusion.

[BobL]

Most 4WDs in Australia are rarely if ever used primarily for towing heavy things over long distances. Instead they sit in driveways and carparks for the larger part of each year.

My realestate sales neighbours who work from home have two (sometimes 3) 4WDs and these vehicles sit in their drive for most of the week. Every other school holidays they take one to a caravan park, towing a small camper trailer. In about 4 years I have seen one of the vehicles come back covered in gravel dust, just once. They don't even drive their kids to school as a relative (in their 4WD) does that.

The other side neighbours also have a 4WD. it gets used for daily commuting and to occasionally go to their holiday shack 120km up the coast on weekends.

SWMBO bought an Isuzu MUX after she burnt out the clutch on the Subaru Forester towing her horse (float + horse ~1300kg).
With the MUX she can now transport two horses, but only does this about every 4-6 weeks and only around the metro area which the MUX does at a doddle. A couple of times a year we've headed south, sometimes towing our 900kg A-van (well more like 1200kg once SWMBO has included he cellar). SWMBO would have bought an electric SUV if one was available, even if on the occasional run down south we would have had to wait for an hour or so to recharge. We do that anyway because we're not usually in a hurry, and we travel with two dogs and we give them a break about every two hours.

BTW the MUX hardly notices the towing of the 1000kg A-Van. Fuel consumption of the MUX only increased by about 10% probably compared to the 25% increase with the Subaru. I suspect the difference is in part because the MUX is taller than the Subaru so the van doesn't produce as much wind resistance when its being towed by the MUX. The same would apply on an electric SUV.

[stevenjd]

Generally speaking the people who complain about all the negatives regarding the ownership of an EV don't own one. The same as owning as heavy 200 series Landcruiser and expecting a vehicle weighing 3 plus ton to get the same economy as a 2 ton vehicle.
But if you suggest going for a smaller car and smaller van the simple answer is no way.

As to driving and an EV and towing a heavy van I can't see it my short life time left. So the so called range anxiety will be not be answered in the near future.

The Rivian I have been following for quite some time and I like it. But it will be very expensive, and the idea as it stands to plan your total trip where you will be able to recharge the batteries and for how long you stay at each charge station isn't pleasant.

I have noticed even with the Tesla that charge stations are becoming a bit of a que if you do a popular trip. At the moment its all a bit trivial to worry about but there will be a need arise as too the number and location of charge points.

When we were buying the Tesla one of the questions I asked Tesla was how many charge stations are you installing per year in Australia. And I didn't receive an answer at all.

Will EV's be the future in motoring I have no idea but what is interesting is to hear people living OS saying how many EV's there are. Australia is a fly spec on the global needs and if we are forced in the future to go EV then Australia will have to follow suit.
Steven

[BobL]

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I have noticed even with the Tesla that charge stations are becoming a bit of a que if you do a popular trip. At the moment its all a bit trivial to worry about but there will be a need arise as too the number and location of charge points.

When we were buying the Tesla one of the questions I asked Tesla was how many charge stations are you installing per year in Australia. And I didn't receive an answer at all.

There will no doubt be problems with queues at fast charging stations but I see this as a teething rather than perennial problem.

The charging stations are coming
Winners in Round 1 of ARENA’s Future Fuels Fund rollout

• Ampol: 121 public fast charging stations across NSW, QLD, VIC & WA.
• Chargefox: 16 public fast charging stations across SA & WA.
• Electric Highways Tasmania: 5 public fast charging stations in TAS.
• Engie: 103 public fast charging stations across NSW, QLD, SA, VIC.
• Evie Networks: 158 public fast charging stations across all states/territories.

Like Ampol I can envisage many a servo converting most of their parking bays into charging stations and some of them on popular routes will even have their own large battery and solar farm.

[stevenjd]

I don't disagree with you at all Bob, and to be honest the only negative about owning a Tesla is the initial purchase price.
The whole idea of cradle to grave costs impact on the environment is very complex, and I think we all have stories to tell about our own personnel impact on what we should have done differently.
None of solutions are without fault as described before. I personally would love to see more research into tidal movement energy capture but it has many issues to be solved but the main driver for me is the tide never sleeps.
Steven.

PS Barnaby is a bit of a fan of the Nuclear power station discussion. And after all he is a real legend... Just ask him.....(mature discussion I think he calls it).

[Chris Parks]

I liken the present problem of chargers as about the same as it was in about 1910 when the ICE was first introduced and there were very few places that sold petrol. Cars had a limited range, nowhere to buy petrol so a horse was better as it could refuel itself while you were having lunch.

[BobL]

A few years ago I read a book by Yann Martel, The High mountains of Portugal, a weird book that includes references too driving a car in remote Portugal in the early 1900's when petrol has sometimes available in mL quantities from places like pharmacies.

Planes were another mode of transport that were initially limited by refuelling.

And the first steam ships that were not efficient enough to carry enough fuel to cross the Atlantic. There was even a proposal to station colliers out to sea for refuelling.

[havabeer69]

Pfffft....electric cars? No thanks, I'm holding out for my personal jetpack, which they've been promising us for years now. Can't be far away?

Available Now! The Jetpack! - That Mitchell & Webb Look Series 4 Episode 3 - BBC Two - YouTube

the future is now.... pretty sure if you look up adam savages videos about building an iron man suit this company will make you a custom 1050BHP suit for $400,000 - $500,000 U.S dollars. Honestly If i ever win a decent sum of money in lotto, along with a trip to space I will be buying one of them




Gravity Industries