Battons for plasterboard over concrete ceiling

[trobo]

Hey,

We have an old place with fairly high concrete ceilings covered by popcorn with most rooms only having a single light fixture coming through the centre. I want to remove the popcorn and then put up a platerboard ceiling to allow enough space to run additional cabling through to put in led downlights throughout.

My question is what is the more recommended approach to go with to attached the plasterboard:
- Timber battons into the concrete celing (in which case the minimum recommended size of the battons and anchor types) or
- Metal battons like the rondo system with clips anchored in and the metal furring channels attached to those

Any guidance or previous experiences would be appreciated.

[Beardy]

Both systems work fine, it is a case of which method you prefer to use. Regardless of which one you use get yourself a laser, a cheapie will do just fine if the room isn’t too bright and it will save you a lot of time and give you a fantastic flat finish.
Depending on the light fitting you choose you will most likely need to lower the ceiling a minimum of 50 to 60mm to allow for the cable connections, depth of light fitting and transformers.

You can use the Rondo furring channel clip system that have threaded height adjustment built in or if prefer timber use plastic horseshoe packers
Work out what finished height you need to achieve and then weigh up the options of which method to use from there

[rwbuild]

Welcome. Are you sure it is a concrete ceiling? Is your place a free standing house or in a multi storey development? There are issues if in a development.

[trobo]

Welcome. Are you sure it is a concrete ceiling? Is your place a free standing house or in a multi storey development? There are issues if in a development.

Yeah definitely concrete, house was built in the 60s I believe and is on a slightly sloping block so double garage underneath with concrete pillars and ceiling supporting the next story (so concrete for the floor of the entire living area of the house) and then another concrete slab on top which is the one I want to redo to add lighting through. They added a tiled pitched roof on to the slab at some point to help deal with the heat that was originally coming through that top slab into the house.

Also double brick walls and brick internal walls, so everything is masonry bar one or 2 stud walls put in as part of a reno a long time back. So most electrical and plumbing was put in when built with a few slightly dodgy additional cables run in over the years for newer powerpoints.

[trobo]

Both systems work fine, it is a case of which method you prefer to use. Regardless of which one you use get yourself a laser, a cheapie will do just fine if the room isn’t too bright and it will save you a lot of time and give you a fantastic flat finish.
Depending on the light fitting you choose you will most likely need to lower the ceiling a minimum of 50 to 60mm to allow for the cable connections, depth of light fitting and transformers.

You can use the Rondo furring channel clip system that have threaded height adjustment built in or if prefer timber use plastic horseshoe packers
Work out what finished height you need to achieve and then weigh up the options of which method to use from there

Besides cost is there any benefit for one over the other. The main thing I was conscious of which Im not overly familiar with the behaviour is whether the potential expansion/contraction of the timber over the seasons vs the rigidity and stability of the metal would be more beneficial. Besides the lounge room which is a fairly large span, the other rooms are your typical bedroom sizes of the older generations, so not the tiny shoe box size of modern builds but nothing overly large.

[Beardy]

Besides cost is there any benefit for one over the other. The main thing I was conscious of which Im not overly familiar with the behaviour is whether the potential expansion/contraction of the timber over the seasons vs the rigidity and stability of the metal would be more beneficial. Besides the lounge room which is a fairly large span, the other rooms are your typical bedroom sizes of the older generations, so not the tiny shoe box size of modern builds but nothing overly large.

There is actually more movement in steel than the timber which is why they use such a light gauge and the clips that support the furring channel allow movement.
The plasterboard moves as well so take note of the fixing specifications for expansion joint locations.
Both timber and steel work fine, timber can have a tendency to pop nails if you intend on using nails but I would only use screws on timber as well.

Do you intend on sheeting and setting it yourself or getting a contractor? If the latter you might consider getting them to do the batterns as it is important to understand sheeting and joint layouts to get the best outcome. Tradesmen who do this sort of work regularly are very fast and efficient at the whole process

[trobo]

There is actually more movement in steel than the timber which is why they use such a light gauge and the clips that support the furring channel allow movement.
The plasterboard moves as well so take note of the fixing specifications for expansion joint locations.
Both timber and steel work fine, timber can have a tendency to pop nails if you intend on using nails but I would only use screws on timber as well.

Do you intend on sheeting and setting it yourself or getting a contractor? If the latter you might consider getting them to do the batterns as it is important to understand sheeting and joint layouts to get the best outcome. Tradesmen who do this sort of work regularly are very fast and efficient at the whole process

Yeah I want to do as much of this myself as I'll have alot of reno work to do and want to save on cost as much as possible as well as try and learn some new skills as I go.

[ian]

Yeah definitely concrete, house was built in the 60s I believe and is on a slightly sloping block so double garage underneath with concrete pillars and ceiling supporting the next story (so concrete for the floor of the entire living area of the house) and then another concrete slab on top which is the one I want to redo to add lighting through. They added a tiled pitched roof on to the slab at some point to help deal with the heat that was originally coming through that top slab into the house.

Also double brick walls and brick internal walls, so everything is masonry bar one or 2 stud walls put in as part of a reno a long time back. So most electrical and plumbing was put in when built with a few slightly dodgy additional cables run in over the years for newer powerpoints.

I want to do as much of this myself as I'll have a lot of reno work to do and want to save on cost as much as possible as well as try and learn some new skills as I go.

OK
If it were me, I'd draw up -- or pay someone with the required knowledge to draw up -- a complete electrical plan and revised plumbing layout for the whole property showing what wiring goes where and which lights are connected to which light switches. I find that where a room is lit by multiple light sources, being able to control which are on and which are off is a great benefit. Also, being able to dim some of the lights is often desirable. Being able to switch lights on or off from more than one location is also advantageous.

If your plan is to work on one or two rooms at a time, maintaining electrical safety while chasing the walls to install the required new wiring could become quite tricky. I'm guessing that your reno plans include replacing the "dodgy additional cables run in over the years for newer power points"

[Beardy]

Yeah I want to do as much of this myself as I'll have alot of reno work to do and want to save on cost as much as possible as well as try and learn some new skills as I go.

The best advice I can give you is get a professional to at least do the setting unless you are experienced. Setting a ceiling is the hardest to do and not the place to learn on unless you are happy with an average outcome.
Try setting some walls first before having a go at a ceiling

[trobo]

OK
If it were me, I'd draw up -- or pay someone with the required knowledge to draw up -- a complete electrical plan and revised plumbing layout for the whole property showing what wiring goes where and which lights are connected to which light switches. I find that where a room is lit by multiple light sources, being able to control which are on and which are off is a great benefit. Also, being able to dim some of the lights is often desirable. Being able to switch lights on or off from more than one location is also advantageous.

If your plan is to work on one or two rooms at a time, maintaining electrical safety while chasing the walls to install the required new wiring could become quite tricky. I'm guessing that your reno plans include replacing the "dodgy additional cables run in over the years for newer power points"

Oh im not planning on moving any plumbing or electric myself, I'll get my sparky mate to sort out the wiring of new downlights in the ceiling I just want to do the plasterboarding myself.

[ian]

Oh im not planning on moving any plumbing or electric myself, I'll get my sparky mate to sort out the wiring of new downlights in the ceiling I just want to do the plasterboarding myself.

just remember that down lights (even LED ones) generate a fair amount of heat.

When we rebuilt our kitchen and installed down lights, we located the transformers on top of the overhead cupboards rather than within the kitchen ceiling. To allow for adequate heat dissipation

[rod1949]

I would be checking the installed depth of the intended LED lights first.

[Pulse]

definitely use Rondo, heaps faster. Just use a 5mm masonry drill and hammer in nylon anchors, 2 per fixation point. Betafix clips are good. Timber needs to be held up and drilled through, Rondo clips are fixed and channel clipped in securely. Use the 140 wall channel too with 129 channels.

[Pete57]

just remember that down lights (even LED ones) generate a fair amount of heat.

When we rebuilt our kitchen and installed down lights, we located the transformers on top of the overhead cupboards rather than within the kitchen ceiling. To allow for adequate heat dissipation

LED downlight instructions have clearance required around light. May need to select downlights to help work out batton size.