Electric, Hybrid or Just Wait

[elanjacobs]

Just saw this, looks like Canada is trying Canada will invest billions to electrify mass transit | Engadget
I remember Perth had a small fleet of hydrogen busses running around a while ago, I'm assuming it was cost prohibitive to keep them going.

[Bushmiller]

Just saw this, looks like Canada is trying Canada will invest billions to electrify mass transit | Engadget
I remember Perth had a small fleet of hydrogen busses running around a while ago, I'm assuming it was cost prohibitive to keep them going.

Elan

Much depends on the method of producing the hydrogen. The cheap way, via fossil fuels, results in carbon emissions. The electrolysis method is clean, providing it is produced from solar or wind power, but expensive. If we get to the point where excess solar power is available through the day, it could conceivably be used to produce H2 via electrolysis: It becomes the storage bank instead of batteries.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

Paul, I was led to believe that the total Australian power consumption was not high enough for even the smallest nuclear power plant and that was one of the reasons it was not considered.

Chris

Historically "nukes" have been large stations, primarily because of the economy of scale. I used to tout that as another reason for not going nuclear, but there was an increasing trend for a while to build much smaller plants. However, I think the whole dynamic has changed in the last two or three years to the point where there is just not the economy in building a nuclear station. Without the prospect of making money, no private investor is going to commit.

In an earlier post I mentioned that the entry point for any new station was $35/MWhr: That was back in 1995. This is a snapshot of the prices today taken at midday:

Electricity market 8 March. Midday.PNG

Now I must emphasise this is a "snapshot" and not an average, but these prices are higher than normal for this time of day! Frequently they are negative in some states. On one hand this is good news for the consumer, except that these savings are not typically passed on to the consumer, but on the other hand it is bad because it limits the amount of new players prepared to enter the market.

The capitol cost of a nuke is high compared to any other form of electricity generation.

Regards
Paul

[BobL]

The capitol cost of a nuke is high compared to any other form of electricity generation.

Not to mention the decommissioning costs etc.

[woodPixel]

Back to OP's question!

In todays ABC News ---- > Cheaper electric cars are coming but is it still too early to jump on board? It depends who you ask - ABC News

[Chris Parks]

Chris

Historically "nukes" have been large stations, primarily because of the economy of scale. I used to tout that as another reason for not going nuclear, but there was an increasing trend for a while to build much smaller plants. However, I think the whole dynamic has changed in the last two or three years to the point where there is just not the economy in building a nuclear station. Without the prospect of making money, no private investor is going to commit.

In an earlier post I mentioned that the entry point for any new station was $35/MWhr: That was back in 1995. This is a snapshot of the prices today taken at midday:

Electricity market 8 March. Midday.PNG

Now I must emphasise this is a "snapshot" and not an average, but these prices are higher than normal for this time of day! Frequently they are negative in some states. On one hand this is good news for the consumer, except that these savings are not typically passed on to the consumer, but on the other hand it is bad because it limits the amount of new players prepared to enter the market.

The capitol cost of a nuke is high compared to any other form of electricity generation.

Regards
Paul

Media hype??? Electricty market: Coal plants in peril as prices plunge

[crowie]

And while this has to be a staged video on YouTube, I think it’d be the only safe way to travel in Australia!

Funny way to run a Tesla on gas and charge it by gas - YouTube

[Bushmiller]

Media hype??? Electricty market: Coal plants in peril as prices plunge

Chris

Rather than continuing to detract from Glider's thread I have started a new thread on the general questions regarding the Electricity market and attempted an answer there:

Future of the Australian Electricity Market (woodworkforums.com)

Regards
Paul

[AlexS]

I haven't contributed much if anything to this thread, but I'd like to say how rare and useful it has been to be able to follow a civil discussion between people who know what they're talking about, have considered various options and are willing to defend their point of view with logical arguments, rather than shouting.
I may be none the wiser, but at least I'm better informed.

[Spyro]

Same here, I enjoyed reading this and I feel I learned new things, thanks

[Handyjack]

In a similar vein to post #112 you might want to look at this BMW i3.
I Bought a $50K 2018 BMW i3 from Carvana for $19K!! Vending Machine Experience!! - YouTube
While I do not know how true the claims are about recharging the battery on the go are, it is a solution to range anxiety in a pure EV.
As far as I am aware the i3 is available in Australia, but not necessarily with an internal combustion engine.

[stevenjd]

We wife and I own a 200 LC Landcruiser for towing and a Tesla for getting around. The effortless driving of the Tesla is amazing. Not to mention the power, the thing just flies.
At the start of looking to buy a second car after selling the VW we drove just about everything around the 80K-95K bracket. The Tesla is funny you seem to pay for less compared to a BMW, Lexus, Audi, Merc etc. But we have had it now for about as year I would guess and to be honest, it is amazing.
The Landcruiser we use to pull a very heavy caravan and I think it will be quite some time before electrics catch up in that area, And really I'm not sure if Hydrogen won't be the choice of heavy vehicles in the future.
But as they say least number of parts the better. To that end electric cars are very simply compared to Diesel cars if they get the obvious sorted.
Steven

[BobL]

The Landcruiser we use to pull a very heavy caravan and I think it will be quite some time before electrics catch up in that area, And really I'm not sure if Hydrogen won't be the choice of heavy vehicles in the future.

How heavy?

[stevenjd]

All up 7.4 ton. Car and van.

[BobL]

All up 7.4 ton. Car and van.

OK given the max Towing weight spec for the 200 LC Landcruiser is 3500 kg

Things may be closer than you think with models like the Rivian R1S is up there at 3.5 Tons.
The big problem is there are no plans to release in Oz - somehow I doubt we'll ever see them here
0-60 MPH in 3s as well - obviously not while towing.