What's your take on asbestos

[The Spin Doctor]

I was wondering whether people find asbestos to be a deal breaker.

It doesn't bother me and I'm ok with living with it and working with it but I'm not sure of the general public. I have a place that I'm going to renovate and it has asbestos... I have to consider future options and one is selling some years down the track or just dying in the place... I also have two ways to approach it: Board over it or remove it. Removal is about 80k plus reboard, so about 110k. Board over is about 30k. I have to ask myself the question: Will I get a return on investment if I go the removal route though. Or, are people in general not that fussed about it, and won't mind if I entomb it behind 10mm of gyprock or vj panel instead.

What say you.

[riverbuilder]

Removal is $80k??
It must be the whole roof and external walls too?
That’s a lot of money, I’ve stripped entire houses and disposed of them for less than half of that.
If you are handy, look into doing the course to get your own ticket, then you can train a couple of guys up, and do it yourself, legally. Then shop around for prices for bins, or buy a decent caged trailer with a cover and do it all yourself. Have to cost less than 80k, surely.

[Warb]

Asbestos removal "specialists", like (sadly) many tradies, jack their prices up because people have no choice and must use a "qualified professional". This is especially annoying when you see the lousy jobs some (but by no means all) "qualified professionals" actually do. I fully understand, and agree with, many of the rules to ensure jobs are done safely, but when a tradesman adds an extra zero to the price because he's the only ticketed person in the area, that's just wrong.

I agree with Riverbuilder, do the course and get a ticket to do it yourself. We have a guy locally who did exactly that - he was quoted a ridiculous price a few years ago for asbestos removal, investigated the options and discovered he could get a ticket himself. He ended up doing the entire job himself (legally and correctly) for a fraction of the quoted price.

[The Spin Doctor]

Removal is $80k??
It must be the whole roof and external walls too?
That’s a lot of money, I’ve stripped entire houses and disposed of them for less than half of that.
If you are handy, look into doing the course to get your own ticket, then you can train a couple of guys up, and do it yourself, legally. Then shop around for prices for bins, or buy a decent caged trailer with a cover and do it all yourself. Have to cost less than 80k, surely.

Asbestos removal "specialists", like (sadly) many tradies, jack their prices up because people have no choice and must use a "qualified professional". This is especially annoying when you see the lousy jobs some (but by no means all) "qualified professionals" actually do. I fully understand, and agree with, many of the rules to ensure jobs are done safely, but when a tradesman adds an extra zero to the price because he's the only ticketed person in the area, that's just wrong.

I agree with Riverbuilder, do the course and get a ticket to do it yourself. We have a guy locally who did exactly that - he was quoted a ridiculous price a few years ago for asbestos removal, investigated the options and discovered he could get a ticket himself. He ended up doing the entire job himself (legally and correctly) for a fraction of the quoted price.

Hi

Thx for the answers, but that wasn't what I was asking. I was looking at resale on a house with asbestos that is well contained and controlled or without asbestos altogehter and whether buyers really care.

[Warb]

Hi

Thx for the answers, but that wasn't what I was asking. I was looking at resale on a house with asbestos that is well contained and controlled or without asbestos altogehter and whether buyers really care.

Some buyers will care, some won't. It's like gluten, meat and everything else - some people get caught up in every "trend" whilst others will do what they've always done. I sold a house in Sydney many years ago for my "after renovation" asking price when I'd not even started the reno's - it wasn't even officially on the market but someone wanted it really badly and told me to down tools and they'd take it "as is". Similar thing on another house that had no council completion certificate etc., one prospective buyer insisted they needed all the paperwork whilst another just paid the price (the first buyer wasn't impressed, but they were warned and all's fair in love and property sales!). Equally, I know of a family who were almost on the point of signing contracts on a small ("lifestyle") farm, offer accepted, the whole deal done, and then discovered there was a wind farm planned on the next range of hills. They instantly pulled their offer and ran!

I suspect the main problem is that even those that don't care about asbestos will still regard it as a way to knock down the asking price (and then quite possibly remove the asbestos and make a profit).

Overall, my experience has been that most people care to a degree, but more importantly anything that CAN be used as a bargaining chip WILL be used as one. So the price is likely to be lower, and some percentage of buyers WILL be put off which narrows the market and lowers the price even more. I guess that's why I (and perhaps Riverbuilder) answered with something along the lines of "buy it cheap because it's got asbestos, then get the asbestos removed in the most cost efficient way and sell it for a higher price".....

Lastly, remember that the laws can and do change. You might buy it now and in five years some politician decides that "no building may be sold with asbestos in it"...........

[BobL]

It's kinda timely that I received the news this morning of the death of a friend who had mesothelioma. After battling with it for years he died in the early hours of the morning while 6 paramedics from 2 ambulances tried to revive him. For the last couple of years he towed an Oxygen bottle around and for the last 6 months or so got totally out of breath just getting out of Bed to go sit in front of the TV. His exposure was largely while working as a motor vehicle brake repairer in the 1970's.

[pippin88]

Fear over asbestos is not like gluten or a trend. It's bloody rational.

Very small amount of exposure to broken asbestos / asbestos dust can kill you years later.

Unbroken / undisturbed asbestos is ok.

I wouldn't buy a house with asbestos. At some point I'm likely to be repairing or drilling holes.

[graham.murfett]

I wouldn't live in a house with any amount of asbestos in it. Period!

[Warb]

Fear over asbestos is not like gluten or a trend. It's bloody rational.

Very small amount of exposure to broken asbestos / asbestos dust can kill you years later.

Unbroken / undisturbed asbestos is ok.

I wouldn't buy a house with asbestos. At some point I'm likely to be repairing or drilling holes.

It depends how you regard "fear", I guess. Most things can kill you, if used incorrectly or without care. There are millions of people who, knowingly or otherwise, live, work, shop, and eat in buildings containing asbestos. There is zero risk involved unless, as you say, the asbestos is released as a dust and inhaled. If you need to drill in to asbestos there are accepted practices for doing this safely. My farm has an old irrigation system that comprises kilometers of "concrete" pipes, that I have been told (and am perfectly willing to believe) contain asbestos, but it doesn't worry me in the slightest - there are a great many things in my everyday life that are far more likely to kill or injure me!

When I mentioned "trends", I was simply suggesting that people have different reactions to situations. Take Covid as an example. A few people around here are still wearing masks, even when alone in their cars (I'm in rural NSW and we haven't seen a single case in my area). Others are hugging and (greeting) kissing "friends" they haven't seen in years..... "Fear" is designed to make us aware of a problem and guide us on a sensible path to avoid danger. The choice of path is up to the individual!

[BobL]

It depends how you regard "fear", I guess. Most things can kill you, if used incorrectly or without care.

From a past post of mine

More than 15 years ago when the 12m long back fence (timber frame and asbestos sheet) blew down during storm so I discussed this with the prickly bastard neighbour. I got a couple of quotes for a new fence including the removal of the old one but they wanted over $500 to remove the old fence so I said I would do the disposal as long as the neighbour paid for half the costs. I carefully double wrapped each sheet and carted them the 30 km to the asbestos waste disposal place in Kwinana where they weighed the van and then I followed a VERY dusty track up onto an asbestos hill about 100m high where there were heaps of mostly unwrapped asbestos pieces just laying around and a D9 dozer running back and forth over the piles crushing them down. I held my breath dumped my sheets and ran for it.

BTW the wrapping plastic and gaffer tape cost about $60 and the disposal fee was $45, and although the mongrel neighbour paid for half the replacement fence he never paid for half the disposal cost of the old fence.

[woodPixel]

Asbestos was a big thing here in Canberra.

There was an insulation installer called Mr Fluffy that literally pumped that crap into the roof cavities of peoples houses.

Well, it became a Bit Of An Issue.

Every Mr Fluffy house was involuntarily purchased by the government and bulldozed at fantastic taxpayer expense. The remnant block was then certified safe and auctioned off. I think people were still wary after that. Some blocks took a long time to sell.

Trav on the forum bought a "Mr Fluffy block" and built his Forever Home. Seems pretty chuffed with it all.

My loving mother sold her house recently. Selling without removing the asbestos sheeting under the eaves seemed to be critical for the sale. I remember the whole job costing $15k... removal of 20-odd sheets, a bit of TLC and replace with something else. Canberra buyers may be more finicky though... they think in a more....hmmm, "Neo Communist" fashion.


On BobLs viewing of a D9 rampaging on the Piles of Death, I've seen this myself too. The rank hypocrisy of it was foul.


I've no direct info on the sunk-investment of do now, or later, on potential selling price. However, I lived in the lower north shore of Sydney for 20 years and asbestos was in bloody everything, walls, sheds, old out houses, in the dirt (as chunks! This was Mosman mind you) even as fill in the friggin driveways. It didn't seem to affect price. People dealt with it as part of the reno, as needed, and otherwise just covered it over to make it safe.

[Chris Parks]

I lived in a fibro house built in the mid 1940's for thirty years and my parents for many more years and as far as I can tell if it isn't disturbed then the risk seems low as none of us have been affected. Before we sold it the corrugated roof on the garage was broken and the strands of asbestos could be seen in the break but none of this affected the sale. That house was only demolished last year and none of the new residents show any health effects so far but never say never.

[Toymaker Len]

We had exactly this dilemma when doing up a house back in 2011. After a couple of talks with real estate people we decided to go full removal rather than just cover. The real estate people reckon that it is a time bomb and that some time in the future you may have to have a house certified asbestos free before you sell.

[The Spin Doctor]

Some buyers will care, some won't. It's like gluten, meat and everything else - some people get caught up in every "trend" whilst others will do what they've always done. I sold a house in Sydney many years ago for my "after renovation" asking price when I'd not even started the reno's - it wasn't even officially on the market but someone wanted it really badly and told me to down tools and they'd take it "as is". Similar thing on another house that had no council completion certificate etc., one prospective buyer insisted they needed all the paperwork whilst another just paid the price (the first buyer wasn't impressed, but they were warned and all's fair in love and property sales!). Equally, I know of a family who were almost on the point of signing contracts on a small ("lifestyle") farm, offer accepted, the whole deal done, and then discovered there was a wind farm planned on the next range of hills. They instantly pulled their offer and ran!

I suspect the main problem is that even those that don't care about asbestos will still regard it as a way to knock down the asking price (and then quite possibly remove the asbestos and make a profit).

Overall, my experience has been that most people care to a degree, but more importantly anything that CAN be used as a bargaining chip WILL be used as one. So the price is likely to be lower, and some percentage of buyers WILL be put off which narrows the market and lowers the price even more. I guess that's why I (and perhaps Riverbuilder) answered with something along the lines of "buy it cheap because it's got asbestos, then get the asbestos removed in the most cost efficient way and sell it for a higher price".....

Lastly, remember that the laws can and do change. You might buy it now and in five years some politician decides that "no building may be sold with asbestos in it"...........

Ya asbestos reactions vary wildly from indiference to paranoia. I personally don't care about it but I have met people that thought it was like a gas and could travel through the walls and instantly kill you with a single strand. I'm wanting to gauge how society feels in general, and if that's changing.

I doubt the laws in the states or by the feds will change in the next 10 years. It would guarantee their loss in the next election. I've seen estimates of 30 to 50% of buildings contain asbestos. That's a lot of voters who would be hit with large financial burdens that I doubt would forget anytime soon... It's kinda like the argument that the government needs to drive down house prices so the youngins can afford to buy one. There'd be milllions of off home owners and investors just waiting to vote them out at the first chance.

The bargening of house prices based upon asbestos are all relative. I wouldn't buy a house with asbestos at full market value and wouldn't expect it to sell at that either... It's about the turns in societies desires and demands that I'm interested and if at all which way is it leaning. Not an easy thing to find on google.

[The Spin Doctor]

From a past post of mine

SNIP

Funny that. Was pulling a bunch of asbestos out of a house and did all the required council handling requierments only to have it uncerimoniously dumped in the tip where a big machine came along and pushed it over the bank and ripped all the plastic off in the process.

Over the years I've noticed that regs and fees have been relaxed on who can handle and dump it. I guess the councils were getting real fed up with all the illegal dumping and burying taking place...