It appears to be over / An apology

[Bushmiller]

It has been a disturbing four years.

I could talk about the legacy for both the American people and indeed the world. I could talk about the lies (several thousand have been documented). I could talk about the behaviour. I could talk about the POTUS playing golf instead of dealing with the issue. I could talk about the way the rest of the world sees him and the diminished standing he has brought to the US. I could talk about the lack of decency that others have attributed to him. I could talk about the "discussions" with the Ukrainian president and the attempt at coercion. I could talk about his reluctance to concede defeat. I could talk about the infantile behaviour. I could talk about all these aberrations, but I won't!

What I will do is ask you to view the concession speech of John McCain (not necessary if you are already familiar with it) when he was defeated by Barack Obama in 2008. I need say no more other than to ask you to compare McCain's acknowledgement and the Trump shenanigans and perhaps also watch Elan's video (again, not necessary if you have already watched).

Senator John McCain Election Night Speech (Full Video) - YouTube

Regards
Paul

[woodPixel]

I saw that McCain concession speech. It was magnificent. Have to admit, when I saw it it changed my opinion of him greatly.

[derekcohen]

Another wonderful moment was Obama's speech to Biden, and Biden's response. Try and picture Trumpet in their shoes ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

[markharrison]

John McCain would have been a fine US President. He was saddled with some bad luck (his opponent chosen by the Democrats) and some poor judgement (his choice of VP candidate).

In many ways, the USA was not ready for for a black President, and that kind of led to where we are. It's not just me that thinks that. Obama's memoir released next week (there are extracts in advance of release) more or less says the same thing.

And yet; on Election Day in 2008, I recall a radio journalist recording Vox pops in southern USA somewhere and one of them was a Southern lady of advancing years. She was asked who she was voting for by the journalist. Her reply was both gobsmackingly gauche and beautiful at the same time. It included the N-word. She said, "Oh, I'm voting for the ". My jaw bounced off the floor. But, here's the beautiful part; it was not said with malice but with delight. She was happy to have voted for Obama and Biden. I really wish I could find that again. It made me feel a little optimistic about the future of the USA and it finally coming to terms with its relationship with race issues.

I mean, I was wrong about the immediate future; but it is not over yet.

Before the election there was all sorts of crazy talk about a "second" civil war. Not crazy in the sense this could never happen, but crazy that it is not a zero percent chance of it happening. But really, had this occurred, this would not have been a second civil war but a continuation of the first. It's still all about "race".

I earlier mentioned that we are a multi-racial family, which is pretty vague; I know. It was meant to be.

My children are ethnically African. They are adopted. As far as I can see they are well within a standard deviation of their peers of all races. They are both net contributors to our society. I am extremely proud of both of them.

It's high time that white people (and I am white) generally got the hell over this delusion of superiority based on the percentage of pigment (or absence thereof) in their skin. We are doing much better than this in Australia than the USA; but the number of our homegrown racists is still a non-zero number. The elevation of Trump just emboldened the racists in the USA. Our racists are still keeping their heads down.

Good!

[FenceFurniture]

John McCain would have been a fine US President. He was saddled with some bad luck (his opponent chosen by the Democrats) and some poor judgement (his choice of VP candidate).

Yes, yes, and yes.

We are doing much better than this in Australia than the USA

You reckon Mark? I don't think so. Just using a measure of black people in high office positions......we are WAY behind the USA. It's not good there, and it's not good here either. I think both countries do very badly with racism in different ways.

My parents (and general AUssie society) inculcated me with racism as a child, and it wasn't until I was about 18 that I started to come to grips with it. Their focus was my Italian BIL. Funnily enough it was food that helped me along the way - I had had a solid diet of meat & 3 crucified vege for 18 years, and then went to live with Sister & BIL for a month. I was never the same again!

[markharrison]

You reckon Mark? I don't think so. Just using a measure of black people in high office positions......we are WAY behind the USA. It's not good there, and it's not good here either. I think both countries do very badly with racism in different ways.

We are doing better; though we are not perfect. As I said; with a few notable exceptions, the average Australian racist is too cowed to speak out much. On the odd occasion when they raise their ugly mugs above the parapet, the general population largely lobs enough ordure at them they pull their heads back in. The most recent notable example being that idiot that was too stupid even for the One Notion Party, which is a very low bar indeed. Nobody has heard of him since!

You are correct about black people in higher positions in Australia. We can do better. That said, we do not have the same percentage of ethnic African people in our population relative to the USA.

I'm talking more about the day-to-day interactions with the general population here versus the USA that African people experience. Obviously, my information is second-hand. I'm not experiencing it directly and, of course, it varies regionally in the USA. A lot! You can't compare Buttcrack, North Carolina to say any of the major cities of more progressive regions (SFO, NY, LA).

We spent several months as a family in Seattle when my children were little back in 2000. It was fantastic. We all had a great time. The locals in western Seattle were very friendly, accepting, and welcoming.

Now compare that to the way I saw African American people being spoken to in North Carolina when I visited there. I did not like NC, at all.

I'm not scared that my children might be arbitrarily detained by some racist cop on a whim and not survive the encounter. A part of that is the professionalism of our local law enforcement agencies versus the incredibly stupid way local law enforcement is structured and managed (if that is not an abuse of the term...) in most areas in the USA.

Our police are not perfect either and historically have been pretty awful too at various times. But it is not like that was the designed intention! Well; with, perhaps, the exceptions of Queensland and New South Wales in the 70's and 80's under the Petersen and Askin governments respectively...

[FenceFurniture]

the average Australian racist is too cowed to speak out much.

This is exactly the problem, and it is exactly those people who have been given a very loud voice in the US. Just because the Australian versions don't feel at the moment that they can't speak out much, doesn't mean they aren't there, stewing away. Ask Adam Goodes, or a plethora of various indigenous athletes and others. I take the point about US black deaths at the hands of the Police, but white fellas don't do so well with them either (although nowhere near as badly).

Have a look at this 5 minute vid from Van Jones (black CNN reporter), commenting after the election. It's heartbreaking.

[Beardy]

I personally think the rascism card often gets overplayed and that as a whole we are a tolerant nation.
What does get people going is when newcomers to Australia don’t want to accept or abide by our rules and ways of life because it doesn’t tie in with their cultural beliefs etc and that gets turned around in being called rascist which it is not. What is the old saying. When in Rome........

For those that don’t think that have a look at how things play out in most other nations

For the record I am also by choice a mixed race family

[Beardy]

My parents (and general AUssie society) inculcated me with racism as a child, and it wasn't until I was about 18 that I started to come to grips with it. Their focus was my Italian BIL. Funnily enough it was food that helped me along the way - I had had a solid diet of meat & 3 crucified vege for 18 years, and then went to live with Sister & BIL for a month. I was never the same again!

Lol, I remember the same when I started dating my wife and eating meals with her family, I didn’t want to go back home for mums Aussie cooking anymore and I know my wife didn’t enjoy meals there as our typical meals were so bland and over cooked by comparison as you said.
You can’t beat good wog food

[FenceFurniture]

A tweet from the Manbaby yesterday, wanting it both ways:
Donald Trump is claiming credit for how secure the election was, while simultaneously pushing baseless claims of massive fraud in the race.

“For years the Dems have been preaching how unsafe and rigged our elections have been,” Trump said in a new tweet. “Now they are saying what a wonderful job the Trump Administration did in making 2020 the most secure election ever. Actually this is true, except for what the Democrats did. Rigged Election!”

¿Que?

[FenceFurniture]

I personally think the racism card often gets overplayed and that as a whole we are a tolerant nation.

I have to wonder what our own Indigenous people think about that. I'm not so sure they'd agree with it.

It's one thing to consider it from the point of view of those from countries that have been represented here for a while (e.g. the Mediterraneans from the 1950s and 60s), but quite another from the perspective of more recent arrivals. It seems to me that it takes at least a generation for the prejudice to subside against the latest targets.

As an example, my Italian BIL (arrived around 1964) said he was glad when the Vietnamese started arriving here in significant numbers in the late 1970s because "everybody leava me alone now, and getta offa my back" which drew much laughter.

(without wishing to stay off topic too much)

[Beardy]

I have to wonder what our own Indigenous people think about that. I'm not so sure they'd agree with it.

It's one thing to consider it from the point of view of those from countries that have been represented here for a while (e.g. the Mediterraneans from the 1950s and 60s), but quite another from the perspective of more recent arrivals. It seems to me that it takes at least a generation for the prejudice to subside against the latest targets.

As an example, my Italian BIL (arrived around 1964) said he was glad when the Vietnamese started arriving here in significant numbers in the late 1970s because "everybody leava me alone now, and getta offa my back" which drew much laughter.

(without wishing to stay off topic too much)

All my indigenous friends agree with the sentiment. Looking at the colour of their skin only taints the issue
In general a lot of their issues are shared with other sectors of our community as well.
My son lived in an aboriginal community for 18 months so has seen it from both sides and my daughters best friend and flat mate is full blood as well
Sure you still have the activist sector looking to stir trouble regardless of what is happening

[Glider]

I have to wonder what our own Indigenous people think about that. I'm not so sure they'd agree with it.

Well said, Brett.

Listen to Stan Grant. Better still, read his books, particularly Talking to My Country and On Identity. We white fellas really have no idea. Ask the indigenous bloke who, having dropped off his little one early one morning, was stopped by the cops in Chippendale recently and questioned for 15 minutes before he was allowed to drive on. It was not a traffic stop, they just thought he may have been a malfeasant.

We still have a very long way to go.

mick

[Beardy]

Well said, Brett.

Listen to Stan Grant. Better still, read his books, particularly Talking to My Country and On Identity. We white fellas really have no idea. Ask the indigenous bloke who, having dropped off his little one early one morning, was stopped by the cops in Chippendale recently and questioned for 15 minutes before he was allowed to drive on. It was not a traffic stop, they just thought he may have been a malfeasant.

We still have a very long way to go.

mick

and you don’t think that happens to other people of various target groups that are not indigenous? There are plenty of suburbs where the same thing happens to a white fella or other ethnic groups just like the police target young males with P plates. Whilst all that is not so palatable it isn’t rascism

[FenceFurniture]

Whilst all that is not so palatable it isn’t rascism

Eh??

I think maybe..

Listen to Stan Grant.